screamers?

Ok after a long off season due to a broken ankle I am starting to think about getting back on the ice. Looking for comments, advice, suggestions on the use of screamers for ice climbing. Do you use them, when, how well do or don't they work. any reason not to use any one of the versions Yates makes?

What say you all?

I use them. I can't say how well they work because I don't fall leading ice. They can't hurt so why not use them? They may save your ass if you ever fall on a screw.

They work.

They most definitely work!!! I think Mark's picture tells it all. If you want a first hand story of their success, I would ask Mark!

Here are two discussions that may be of some use. Unfortunately, the links referred to in those discussions seem to be dead now.

supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;tn=0
supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;tn=0

I'd say the bottom line is that they probably can't hurt, but don't expect too much either. The longer the fall, the less effect a screamer can have, so they are most likely to be of use on short falls.

As for testimonials, remember that no one ever goes back and repeats the "experiment" without the screamer, so it is hard to know in any such case what effect, if any, the screamer had. When people do try controlled testing, the effects tend to be relatively minor, but a minor effect might be worth something on marginal pro.

I can't say for sure it was the screamer made the differance but I like to think so. I fell on this nut:

As you can see above and below the nut the left wall is flaring and wouldn't hold anything, as I was aiding on the nut I noticed it grooving out (note the left side of the nut has a small bit of sandstone conforming to it, which is cracked!) I didn't think it would hold a fall and I wanted off it but left it with a scream aid, and I'm happy I did as it caught my fall when the nut above failed with me on it just before I transfered to the next piece:

This was a scream aid which should be backed up with a runner(I didn't think it would hold so I didn't bother but I got lucky)
I have faith in them. I was on another route when I blew a piece, I was backed up to a fixed aluminum circle head (screamer daisy) and the piece below me had a screamer. I landed on both and suffered no shock or blown pieces. they both partially deployed before I stopped.

Of note on the scream aids. My partner had tried this same pitch previously and used a single scream aid on the cam below him(no screamer daisy on the aluminum head). the hook he was on blew and he flew, ripped the scream aid clean to it's breaking strength (6kn BTW) and kept flying nearly 20' to just before a slab. If you use the scream aid for those extra dubious placments and are looking at more then a couple feet of a fall I would back it up with a long runner or better yet a regular screamer. In theory the scream aid starts deploying at 1.5 kn and the regular screamer deploys at 2kn. the breaking strength of the scream aid is 6 kn so the regular screamer should deploy and absorb a bit of force before reaching the 6kn breaking strength of the scream aid. this is theory though and who know's if it would absorb enough to stop 6kn from reaching the scream aid, could be worth backing up with a long runner either way.

Pretty much what Jay says. Some folks claim that if you climb on doubles you don't really need them, but even the doubles with the softest catch still have a maximum impact force between 4-5 kN and Yates Screamers activate around 2kN. Of course, the UIAA impact test is relatively harsh so a real-world fall probably wouldn't generate 4-5 kN - OTOH the half-rope test uses less weight too, so who knows? Screamers are a bit heavier and bulkier than regular slings but provide some added insurance IMO. Mammut has come out with something similar that is much smaller and lighter but is almost twice as expensive ($40/each!!!!).

The one I deployed was clipped to a 16cm screw in decent ice, I was using doubles at the time also. I fell while I was stepping up onto a snowy ledge and took an upside down ride when my crampon caught on the other rope. I don't know if the screamer made a difference or not but I wouldn't want to go repeat the experiment again without it.

i took a 30+ footer on a screamer. embarrassing i know. but every single stitch ripped and it was the softest landing ever.

objectively, after ever stitch has ripped it is the same as a standard sling (22kn) so it definitely won't hurt.... only the wallet.

yeah, the ankle was the result of no screamer on a 10 cm screw placed at my feet, when it blew i went for a ride and am lucky to be here. 30 feet with only a broken ankle which i walked out on, i think in light of the investment, the time on the couch calls for any and everything to try and prevent that again.

i dont ice climb anymore (70 footer ten years ago - banged up but walked out), but i trust that screamers work properly. i use them every once in a while with trad climbing, and have ripped a few in leader falls. if i were to ice climb again, i would rack every screw with them. besides consider how often do/would/have you fallen on them!? they arent cheap, but kind of a small price to pay. none of the gear we use is cheap.

also remember that not every fall on a screamer rips it entirely. sometimes it may just rip an inch or two. they arent necessarily a one-time-use as some people above are suggesting.

I've got a rack of 10 screamers that I primarily use in ice/mixed/small pro trad climbing. But I also use thinner ropes and prefer dynamic belay methods when possible to reduce force in the system.

As mentioned above, once there is enough rope in the system (30-40'?) the value of a screamer lessens significantly as the rope can be a very effective energy absorber.

My favorite screamer story was when freeing a route with Steve House in the Cascades (Liberty Bell). I clipped my one screamer to a vertical knifeblade that we had placed about 15' above a belay pod -700' above the ground. With my feet at pin level, a sidepull snapped and I took a 20' fall (factor 1)- ripping out every stitch - and it was the softest fall imaginable as I swung gently back into the belay cave, grabbing the anchor as I stopped.
Steve reaches back onto his harness, removes another screamer, hands it to me and says "you're gonna need this" -too funny!!

Ever since then I've been a believer in these devices, but I mostly save them for the first half of a pitch or any less than ideal placements (common in alpine mixed). Thin, new, and very stretchy ropes plus a dynamic belay method are probably just as effective but not always an option. Especially when ropes are wet, they are reported to lose most of their dynamic ability (ice climbing when wet) and this could be the key environment for screamers.

WiledHorse wrote:(70 footer ten years ago - banged up but walked out)...

Eli! strangely ironic! (or is it coincidence?) do you remember that? you watched my fall (Jan 2000(?), RMNP, Black Lake Ice...) you were guiding some folks, setting up camp, and checked me out once i came down. havent seen you much since then (maybe once in Lumpy!?). but again, thanks for your quick attention that afternoon.
-Darren Mabe

Shock absorbing lanyards have been used in the Industrial and Rescue world for many years where a fall is caught with a lanyard. There is nothing else to minimize the impact force besides the release of the shock absorber (Screamer). Screamers are built the same way and work very well.
Everyone is right the rope absorbs a huge amount of impact during your fall along with the harnesses, the people themselves and slippage of the rope through the belay device. Adding a Screamer adds one more level of impact reduction into your system. The questions to ask are: Does the added weight of Screamers increase the potential of you falling? Does the added length of your fall as a result of a deployed Screamer cause you to impact something below. If the answers are no I agree with everyone "yes" to use of Screamers or other brands product in your system especially on ice screws and "iffy" placements.
Hopefully you never have to test one.

I try to use them whenever I can on ice, and for the rusty old pins you find at the Gunks--but I seem to be the only one who does that.

Hey Darren-
Of course I remember your fall on that very cold day at Black Lk- awesome that you weren't hurt and all held- I was preparing my crew for the worse case scenario in that environment with a potentially very hurt climber...it had my heart pumping good although likely not as much as yours! Those low angle top-outs are often tougher than the steep bits- harder to stay fully engaged with the ice...
Hope to see you in the hills again sooner than later!
E

This post reminds me that I should probably pick up a few more.

Eli Helmuth wrote: awesome that you weren't hurt and all held- I was preparing my crew for the worse case scenario in that environment with a potentially very hurt climber...

never got to share with you the outcome! i remember us tossin around the idea of campin with you for the night, it was so cold, we werent prepared, and was worried of not being able to move. good thing, because it took me about 8 hours to hobble out, popping advil every 30 min. the next day i was so stiff and i couldnt walk for a week. nothing was broken, no internal bleeding. my right side was one big bruise. wow. i still dont know how i held on to my tools (leashed to me). one tool poked through 4 layers of clothes but did not break my skin. somehow in the course of falling past my partner, the rope got core-shot (with several strands cut too) along with the core-shot section that laid over the biner... and i still have that piece of rope as a reminder... we measured from the cut to my tie-in and thats how we approximated the fall distance (60-70 feet total). yikes! almost a factor 2... but the screw held (thank the Lord) but was a banana, placed 4 feet off the belay. glad i did, or i most likely would have ripped my partner off too! still thankful of his catch.

Eli Helmuth wrote:it had my heart pumping good although likely not as much as yours!

i blacked out for a little less than a minute when i finally stopped!

A great review of screamers and horrifying whippers:

rockclimbing.com/Articles/G…

I fully agree that screamers work and are a great tool for use in ice/sketchy placements.
I was climbing the second pitch of the Stairway in Utah on the left side in bad conditions. I had placed a 10cm screw in a basket ball sized blob of ice with a screamer on it then continued up to where the ice ran out placed a cam in the frozen crack and continued to the top, where as I was topping out my feet blew out an I went for the tumble. The cam didn't even try to catch my fall(icy cracks and cams don't mix well). I ended up hanging upside-down looking my belayer in the eyes. When I flipped around and caught my breath I looked up to see what had caught my fall. The 10cm screw with a screamer on it. The screamer had fully ripped. I think that screamer saved my life that day. I use them faithfully when I ice climb. I carry 2-3 zipper screamers and 6 regular screamers every time I go out.
Dallen

Would someone mind briefly explaining what screamers do and how they help?