[Hide Comment] My 2 cents:

The first pin is soft iron and will most likely break at the neck of the pin if someone tries to remove it with a hammer or funkness, leaving the blade in the rock quite impossible to remove.

It is possible to clip the first pin and then downclimb to the ground to test it. Once on the ground if you weight the rope like crazy and the pin holds, it will probably hold a fall from the crux since the pin is at your chest for that move.

There is a 0.4 or 0.5 TCU/Alien placement left a bit and below the first pin that will keep you off the ground should the pin fail, although you will swing a bit. Apr 17, 2002

[Hide Comment] While I understand the idea and concept of keeping the the route in its original condition with regard to the fixed pins, I will once again state that fixed gear is fixed gear regardless of the form it takes. It does not matter whether it is a bolt or a pin. Both pieces are relied upon by the climber for pro, with the caveat that the pin is less stable. When you add to this that the pins are 20+ years old, I consider this laughable that people actually object to replacing the gear with bolts. The bolt will last longer, can be placed in the same locale, and represents the same caliber of climbing. This will in the long run reduce the damage to the rock, while allowing people to climb this fine route. Apr 17, 2002

[Hide Comment] Steve:

I do agree with, and respect your premise that a bolt would change the nature of the route by making the climber 100% sure of the pro, and I can appreciate the idea of the trad climb demanding much more mental control than a similarly bolted sport route. For instance, I did X-M the other day on the Bastille, and was shaking in my boots trying to figure out the crux moves with my gear consisting of a very small questionable RP and a distant alien 15 feet below, but when I pulled it off I must say that it was quite a different feeling than many sport routes I have done. A bolt right there would have made the route easy (relatively)

It would be a shame to cover the rock with all that chalk (if bolted) as surely more attempts would be made. I guess the only issue lies in how are these type of routes to be maintained when the gear in place fails. I just feel it is somewhat irresponsible to replace fixed gear with something less than bombproof. Perhaps each route will need to be looked at, and if clean gear (aliens, rps atc) can be had then mere removal of the pin could make the climb more challenging and prevent failure from someone trusting it to hold, while on those routes that absolutely require something fixed perhaps bolts are in order. Tough call for sure....... Definitely a problem that I think was not expected before so many people took up the sport.

I must add that I have not yet mustered the courage to do Wendego, but have it on the list for a day when I feel strong, and courageous! I appreciate the dialogue about this a value your opinion, and hopefully did not offend you by my comments...... (Some of my sarcasm did come from the AC posting!) Apr 18, 2002

[Hide Comment] As I recall, the pin under discussion is a Lost Arrow. This being the case, simply removing it would solve the issue entirely since a #1 Slider would slip into the slot left by a Lost Arrow and generate a nearly bomb proof piece. Apr 18, 2002

[Hide Comment] Took a look at Wendego last week and noticed a total of four fixed pitons on the first pitch. The first piton is low down in the short corner under main dihedral and slab. I had always remembered it being there, but it was partially hidden by a small bush. It only protects the very beginning and is too low to be considered a back-up for the lost arrow that protects the crux. This lost arrow looks so-so, but it may have been recently put in. It is still only driven about halfway and tilts downward. The next two are fully driven angles that look newish and very good. There is decent gear between the upper pins, so trusting the lost arrow through the crux and for a few more moves is probably the only concern. It looks like Aliens or Ball Nuts might back up the crux pin well enough. I hope to summon up the courage to get on it soon to verify the condition of the fixed gear and try out the new micro gear.

By the way, I really doubt that the FHRC/ACE would ever allow a bolt to go in, and then getting it by the Park would be nearly impossible (thankfully). Anyone who drilled a bolt would probably haunted by a former FHRC member for a good long time. Apr 18, 2002

[Hide Comment] As part of the Celebrate Eldo and FHRC activities this past weekend, my partner, JC, and I attempted to replace the suspect pin on this route.

We aborted an extensive removal attempt after we realized that we would probably break the pin trying to get it out. Leaving an unusable pin in place was not an acceptable solution. Therefore, this pin was driven back into the crack, and a backup "replacement" pin was driven above and adjacent to it.

A steel link through both eyes of the pins (as a single point of protection to clip), will be installed. Currently there is a temporary loop (3") of webbing threaded through both pins.

This point of pro is in the same location, but is now relatively good.The pins still look scary, and the "fixed" gear on Wendego will continue to deter sport climbers, and the masses.

IMHO the possibility of slicing one's rope on the lip is a greater concern than the pins. One brave soul whipped and sliced his cord to 3 remaining strands. Undaunted, he lowered to the talus, cut his rope, tied back in, and sent. Not being as courageous or as confident, the fear of the rope slice gives me the Willies, and should be considered by any aspiring leader and his belayer. Oct 8, 2002

[Hide Comment] Thanks for puttin' a new pin in... seems to be a good compromise between the "leave as is " and the bolting camp-- I don't think folks are waiting in line for their next RP burn, yet it gives some enough confidence to give it a whirl. I thought the rest of the pins seemed pretty good, and depending on how hard you want to work, there is gear inbetween. BTW, I spoke w/ somebody yesterday who was present at the rope slicing incident and friends w the climber... he said that the leader blew off the bomber friend placement and did not have the next pin clipped when he tried to pull the roof, flew and consequently shredded his rope. So, keep in mind that the best hold on the entire route takes a bomber cam and leaves plenty of room for a good grip. Jan 28, 2003

[Hide Comment] Replaced the old purple piece of tat threaded through the first pins in the roof on 12-20-03. The new piece is doubled through the pins. If anyone plans on going up it might be possible to clip a very narrow karabiner of one of those mallion (?) rings that you can get at the hardware store into the pins. This will save everyone the hassle of replacing the tat periodically and will be a lot safer. Dec 24, 2003

[Hide Comment] I climbed this last weekend (narrowly missing the on-site with a foolish foot slip). Got it clean after lowering off.Anyway, I have fixed a stopper through those two pins that are right next to each other. I couldn't get the swaged end through both eyes, so I stuck the nutted end through and clipped both ends with a locker to create a sort of contrived cable. I'm not convinced that it's all that great (maybe the wires could get broken over the sharp eyes of the pins?), but it sure is better than just clipping the old tat that's up there.

As a side note, I'm very happy that it still has the gear that it does. I have wanted to climb it for a while now, and it would have been much less meaningful (or even interesting) if I thought I could just go fall my way up it all willy nilly. Besides, the other gear that you can fiddle in isn't all that bad. Thanks for keeping ethics alive, everybody. Mar 1, 2005

[Hide Comment] I climbed this route last week with a friend and we bounce tested the two pins before heading up, they seemed okay, so we climbed it. I actually took a small fall on the two pins after pulling through the crux, and to my surprise they held fine. This is a great line and you shouldn't be scared off of it by the pins. Techy footwork at the bottom, arete slapping, and a little corner climbing makes this one of the better routes I have been on in Eldo. Nov 9, 2007

[Hide Comment] Too thin for me to think of it as pleasureable. Jul 1, 2008

[Hide Comment] Wendego is excellent. Super desperate. I can't fathom climbing it barefoot. Skip is badass. Nov 8, 2009

[Hide Comment] How long do we have to stomach the intransigent retro-morons ruling over Eldo keeping the routes as they were in the way back Golden Age of Ignorance when a bunch of know-nothings either nailed their way up standing on gear or nearly touched lips with suicide holding to that old contrived "ground-up" ethic? The history of political struggle matters, the history of rock climbing and alpinism does not, and if you think it does, well, that's damned sad. The past is dead and utterly forgettable. It wasn't you, it wasn't me, and the survivors mostly don't care anymore, but that doesn't matter either. I care about the safety of climbers alive today, not how different some self-indulgent joker's ascent felt compared to a safe, chushy clip 'n' go experience. Why keep a mess of shitty pins that will pull at some point in our children's lifetimes instead of throwing in bolts so we can all suffer our way up yet another hideous Eldo slab?

And yes, Skip was rad as God. Aug 7, 2015

[Hide Comment] Climbing is inherently dangerous. One of the incredible things about Eldo is that you have to choice to risk it for the biscuit like climbers once did. If you are to concerned about being injured, don’t climb it, or just TR it and let those who want to go “clean” on it do so. Trust me, I am all for the general safety for the climbing community, but I think that in the end it is the responsibility of the individual climber to asses the potential risk and be aware of what they are getting into. If everyone was able to do it in the comfort of their own modern bubble, then everyone would be a climber. Sep 11, 2017

[Hide Comment] The pin stack currently seems to be in decent enough shape, I replaced the tat and bounce tested it from the ground. You are on toprope for the hardest moves of this climb, so you will never generate a whole lot of force on the stack. Never felt seriously runout, but it is engaging and hard until you make it to the vertical terrain up high. The last 10 feet are kind of funky and committing. Get after it! Best pitch of 12- that I've been on so far in the canyon. Apr 7, 2018

[Hide Comment] I always thought of Wendego as one of the most incredible climbs in the canyon. It felt way harder than .12-. I tried it in 1981 & flailed. In 1986, I finally sent the route. By 1986, I was way more honed. It still felt desperate, especially the first moves leaving the stem & pulling onto the face. For over 30 years, the climb's upwardly driven pins (from the 1960s) have killed my desire to ever return. Replacing the 3 pins with 3 bolts would be a great community service. It's a challenging enough route, that falls are inevitable. The pins will eventually fail. The questionable hardware detracts from from the quality of such an amazing climb.

In 1985, Patrick Edlinger visited the United States, including spending a great deal of time in Eldorado. After he returned to France, a color photo book was published featuring him on the climbs he had done in the US. At the time, he was one of the best climbers in the world. He rated Wendego .12b/c. Nov 10, 2019

[Hide Comment] Wendego is a stellar line - totally unique and engaging climbing bottom to top. Would anyone know the history of the name?

The pin stack is as solid as it can be and is not moving or deteriorating. I've taken and seen dozens of small falls on it, granted, most of my climbing group is less than 150 lbs. If you want to remove the "R" climbing (thin, insecure moves after pulling the crux and before clipping the second pin), an extended sling can be stickclipped from the second pin. I'm sure this route will one day have a bolt at the start, but I don't feel it's overly dangerous in its current state. This can be accessed for TR from Climb of the Century's anchors.

Full gear beta spray:

The pin stack is backed up by a piece (black Totem ideal) on the start of Climb of the Century that'd keep you out of the rock stack should the first pin blow. You could hypothetically build an anchor on COTC if you wanted 0.1/0.2 or RPs. There is no other gear available in or near the dihedral at the start that can be trusted. Insecure moves gets you to the second pin, which looks really solid and can be backed up by a 0.2 (purple Metolius is ideal, and the cam design leaves more room for your fingers). The dangerous climbing ends here, and the rest of the route feels pretty PG if you find the gear. Another hard move gets you to a flared 0.2 slot then one more move to a bomber 0.75 placement shortly followed by the solid 3rd pin. Pull some lieback moves, and find a stance on good holds and foot holds before pulling up onto the ledge, two 0.3s can be placed (blindly) by your ankle and knee. A low 0.1 and/or 0.2 can be placed from the ledge before starting up the final dihedral. A sinker #5 RP can be found before pulling the last hard move to clip the chains, I place this from the incut crimp 2/3 of the way up the corner, a fall would be very big if you blew the top without this! May 5, 2023

[Hide Comment] Watching friends on this route since its FFA, the route retains a visual aesthetic that bolts would diminish. It seems that sensible compromises, like updating the fixed pins, makes the pitch Safe . . . Enough. Unless a person skips clips or solid placements in between and then falls, nearly severing their rope. Judgment always enters the equation, and the Eldo Committee has generally sustained a balance, between preserving the essential qualities of the canyon experience, and acknowledging the practical realities of a surging climbing volume. New, young folks used to indoor sport clipping find different kinds of challenges, many mental ones, on routes subjectively far harder than a rating might suggest. Climbers are given the freedom to climb at their own risk, while respecting the level of learning associated with leading trad routes at 5.5, 5.9, 5.11, and harder climbs.

No group - neither trad curmudgeons nor sport babies - nor individual, has sole rights of ownership, to dictate style for an area, a route, or other climbers. Reasonable discussions have tempered opinions, leaving egos at the gate, and peace has been kept, to where everyone can just get along and go climbing.

One modern trend that is also perversely retro has been to free hard lines without use of bolts already in place, and this option is always available to anyone, and soloing, the final response to ethical debates, has not been prohibited. Apr 9, 2024

[Hide Comment] The pins seem fine. I replaced the sling on the first pin stack (2 pins side by side). Nov 20, 2024