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Woody Framing Advice

Original Post
Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20

I think that I'm pretty much done with the design of my woody. I've gone and read a few different websites for recommendations for framing and noticed that they recommend 2x6 studs on roofs and overhangs. Is this necessary or just a liability statement on their end?

In total the wall is 8' tall, 9' long and 4' wide. The steeper wall on the left is 30 degrees and the one on the right is 10. The roof is 3' long. Should I consider putting 2x6 studs on the 30 degree wall and roof?

This idea is that this will be a free standing wall where the separate walls are attached using bolts so that we can break it down easily and move it.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Woody Frame

Rocks and Snow · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0

While 2x4s may hold, 2x6s will flex much less once you add the weight of the panels, holds, climber, etc...
It's a small investment up front, but definitely worth it in the long run.

Jamie K. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 238

I had a freestanding 8x8 wall at 35 degrees that was made with standard 2x4 construction. I didn't really notice any flex. I note that I had a kicker and header so that the inclined section of the wall was 8 feet long. Your incline is a little less steep and a little longer (~9 feet?), so you might have a little flex, but i wouldn't expect it to be too bad. You'll also be stiffer due to the fact that your wall in more narrow. Your roof section is short enough that 2x4's should be fine.

That said the 2x6 construction would be stiffer and might afford more room for the bolted connections.

Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20

Thanks for the advice. I think that you're right about the 2x6 having more bolting room, especially where the roof and left wall join.

Tony Monbetsu · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 616

I did mine primarily with 2x4s, and if I could do it again I'd use 2x6s. Less flex, more comfort, just more solid overall. The money saved isn't worth it in my opinion, but my 2x4 wall DOES hold up and hasn't collapsed or anything. I used 2x6s for my roof though.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

Unless you are REALLY trying to save a couple of bucks there isn't any reason not to use an x6. If you are concerned about flex and want to use x4's, then bridge the jack studs using hangers on both ends. Stagger where you bridge ~2" between each jack stud. Use some liquid mails between the frame and the plywood if you don't plan on moving it.

Over time(months/years) the 2x4 will warp a lot quicker. A friend of mine built a lean-to about 9 ft long, single sheet of plywood (plus some scrap) about a year ago. After a lot of use the king studs are about 1/4" out of plumb. 1/4" may not sound like a lot. But warping is exponential.

Nick Weicht · · Valdez, AK · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 41,393
mountainproject.com/v/10935… Climbing Wall Pics.

I will be posting more pics soon but this may give you some ideas. The first thing that comes to mind when looking at you plan is how small the cave is. The quality of a wall goes way up when you can do multiple moves with your full wing span. In hinsight I wish all my walls would have been 12'-16' wide. Even 8' is on the short side. The design is cool but not very practical because a climber will always find them selves in another dihedral. You will be forced to do the same moves over and over again with little opportunity to force a sequence. The systems wall in my bedroom gets a lot of use and takes up very little space. I also only had to use 4 medium sized lag bolts through the sheet rock to the top plate. Nice for when it will someday have to be taken down. Depending on what kind of room you are working with and what results you want a systems may be the way to go.
Capt. Impatient · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

Forget the roof and the 10 degree wall. A three foot roof? You are not going to use it and the with closeness of the two walls you are going to be thinking about knocking your head every other move. Build a 45 to 35 degree wall that is 8x8 ( if you can). Get system holds and hit strips. You won't regret it. Or just get a good hang board.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60

You should really run a header on the left side of that plan at the top of the studs. Then your bridges(rafters?) would actually be stable. Run it along your Z-axis.

As it stands the left side of your wall allows for significant Z-axis movement.

Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20
Framing

Framing

Rendering

So I made some changes to the plans. My wife and I figured that since we were going to be coming out 8' with the 2x8 that would have the hang board on it then we might as well bring the whole thing out 8' and put the hang board on the front of the wall.

I have all the framing done but have some sturdiness issues. Side to side it's pretty sturdy but front to back it has some wobble. I hung on the 2x8 at the front and swung back and forth. While it's not a huge amount it's still there. I have three thoughts on how to resolve this.

1. put an ibolt into the back wall, a hook in the studs of the house wall and connect them via chains. Since the back wall is also swaying with the other studs I figure that If I can stop the back wall then the rest should stop as well.
2. run 2x4s diagonally along the back side of the wall. I don't really want the added weight though if I can avoid it.
3. hope that the plywood sturdies it up.

Even if #3 doesn't work I can still go back toe 1 or 2.

I have the roof and side walls fastened together via bolts so that we can break the whole wall down into 7 pieces if we have to move. The bolts are allowing the side walls to move a little bit and change the degree of the angles slightly.

I figure that I'm also going to need to put a 2x4 on the ground at the front to prevent the opening from getting wider.
bobbin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 0

Diagonal bracing, even a single 2x4, or plywood facing will make that a lot more rigid. Those short pieces in between the studs don't resist movement front-back (from side to side in climber's point of view). I am no carpenter but also feel that a header piece is called for here.

PeterW Whitmore · · Dryden, NY · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 50

The plywood will make that completely rigid. I wouldn't worry about any additional bracing for side to side movement.

Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20

The bracing in between the studs are really just there to keep the 2x6's from being too wobbly. A header would probably do the trick if I could run it the full depth of the wall. My goal is to have it so that I can move the wall as many times as I need to and if I use screws and take the in and out then eventually they won't work anymore without replacing some wood.

Thanks PeterW, that's what I'm hoping for.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60
Patrick Stoddard wrote:The bracing in between the studs are really just there to keep the 2x6's from being too wobbly. A header would probably do the trick if I could run it the full depth of the wall. My goal is to have it so that I can move the wall as many times as I need to and if I use screws and take the in and out then eventually they won't work anymore without replacing some wood. Thanks PeterW, that's what I'm hoping for.
I still strongly suggest a header. But since it seems like you are opposed to the idea...Put some 3/8" expansion bolts, 4 should do it(2 on each side), in the base plate of your structure. Drill them into the concrete. If you do move, you can always patch it. That plus the plywood would stop most movement. Your climbers left to right movement wouldn't be 100% stable, but the effect of that is marginal.

Otherwise, fixing only one of your problems, the diagonal 2x4s would work well in stopping your z-axis from shifting. This wouldn't fix your wall from opening like a book over time. Keep in mind though if you put a 2x4 on the base of your wall there is an additional fall hazard there now.

Some other things I feel I should mention. The ibolt idea should probably be revised to putting a lag bolt directly into the stud(from the header usually) on both vertical rises in the wall. I can't tell exactly from the pictures but it looks like you can put 2 lag bolts on the king studs on either side of the window. And at least one stud on the more vertical section. I wouldn't advise putting bolts into the cripples under the window sill as it could pull your window slightly out of plumb over time and allow for water to get in. Again, I can't see everything from those photos. But that's what I'd do.

And if you do decide to go with the header you should really take off the joists on the left side and reassemble that part.
Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20

Thanks Eliot.

A few things that I don't think are apparent in the pictures is that the left and right walls are made out of two "panels" each for ease of moving instead of 2 walls 8'x8' I have four walls 4'x8' the two walls are bolted together with four bolts running down the length of the 2x6. So if I was to put anchor bolts in there would be four on each side. I assume that you're talking about using anchor bolts in order to keep the wall from "opening like a book" and not to keep the base from lifting. I can't say that I'm terribly familiar with using anchor bolts and would have to do some research to see if they can be removed. I imagine that it would just entail taking the bolt off, removing the wall, cutting the threaded rod down as far as possible and patching over it.

As far as using the ibolt, the right half of the wall if in front of a solid stud wall while the left have is in front of the window. It's a good point you made about the cripples. I could probably put the ibolt in the header if there's enough room just below the roof to screw it in.

I imagine that when you're talking about lag bolts that you're talking about putting a lag bolt through the back 2x6 on the left side and fasten the climbing wall directly into the stud wall. The only problem with this is that it would have to be a 7" lag bolt just to get through the wall and touch the stud wall.

I have to ask why I would need to redesign the left side if I used a header and not the right side as well?

I thought about the fall hazard as well and don't love the idea of a 2x4 there so I might have to put some thought into the anchor bolts.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60
Patrick Stoddard wrote:Lots of stuff
The bolts I'm referring to aren't really used by the climbing community, even those they make fun of. Just regular old concrete bolts from home depot. If you don't shear the shaft you can back them out. But yes, that's pretty much what I was referring to in terms of fixing it. If you were to use these below, you would have to drill a 2.5" deep hole into the concrete(+1.5" because of your plate).

homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-3-8-…

If you are able to get lag bolts in it would stop pretty much every issue. The ibolt and chain thing would probably work after everything settled in. I've certainly seen some janky things, far jankier than that. Since I can't see everything, you could float some something to drill the lag into. Below is an 8" that would be the kind of thing to get(doesn't need to be galvanized). Just make sure that you don't drill more than 2" into the stud in the wall. You can put some ripped 2x4/plywood to put a larger screw into the same space.

homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bolt-…

If you want to be a perfectionist the header on the right should exist. But, if you run a header on the left side, then you have stuck it all together more or less. Put some plywood on that, and it'd be pretty damn sturdy. My anecdotal evidence is using two 2x4s in an L just using 3-4 nails as a support for LVL walk boards on the side of a house.

Redesign is the wrong word. You would want to use angled hangers to connect the joists to the header. Then use hangers to connect the L shape on the right side, and with the cripples you have in the roof already you are connected on multiple points to the header. The wall would become one big sturdy object. You could wait to put any anchor system in until after you use it for a bit. You might not even need anything so elaborate for an anchor. Hangers below, make sure to get at least 2 fat nails in each hanger connecting both pieces if possible depending on which hangers you get.

homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Str…

homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Str…

I feel I should mention that this is what I would do, and you should use your best judgement.
Patrick Stoddard · · Texarkana, Texas · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 20

I see what you're saying but it seems that adding the header and L shape would prevent me from being able to take it apart easily and I would have to take screws in and out every time that I had to disassemble the wall. Eventually the screws wouldn't work anymore. I don't intend to move all that often but I'd like the wall to last for multiple moves if necessary.

Thanks for all the advice Eliot. I'll let you know what happens and what we end up doing.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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