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Why Climbers Aren't Famous or What Climbing Means to the Masses, blog post

Original Post
Luke Mehall · · Durango, Colorado · Joined May 2009 · Points: 2,508

One of our more recent blog posts @ The Climbing Zine.

word.

climbingzine.com/slides/why…

dirtbags in the desert.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Dude! Nice bit of writing, I like it even though it bashes on me in some parts. haha.

Finn The Human · · The Land of Ooo · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 106

Nice piece, I really enjoyed it.

fossana · · leeds, ut · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 13,318

Well written. Thanks for sharing.

coloradosk8r · · Ft Collins co · Joined May 2012 · Points: 65

Word

Cor · · Sandbagging since 1989 · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 1,445

good reading!

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241

The conclusion is that climbing is a spiritual pursuit, something I feel when I'm out there, but somehow I don't think most of us are made into better, more spiritually evolved people for all our climbing.

It strips us of our multiple dimensions and transforms us into a group that thinks and talks about one thing above all else. It's simply what we do because we must do it. Yes, it's pure self-gratifying navel gazing, folks, don't fool yourselves.

And, therefore, as a well-practiced egotist, I am happy to report I do not give one whit what the masses think of our sport. The phonies don't understand us, they never will. Our character building sport has evolved us into.... Holden Caulfield.

Josh Wood · · NYC · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 120

I disagree about the point on climbing being too spiritual to be mainstream. Dirtbags never will be mainstream, it's the guys who do more than spiritual things that try to appeal to the masses. I look up to a professional climber in the same way as I look up to any athlete; I'm amazed by their performance. Whether or not Alex Honnold is spiritual or a sellout, the main reason that anyone, climber or non-climber, looks up to him is because of what he does, in the same way they admire a basketball player. And just because something is spiritual doesn't mean it can't appeal to the masses. Dean Potter has done a few things for National Geographic, and in them he has mentioned his relationship with life and death, and his view of danger. Also, many mainstream artists and musicians have some sort of deep emotions in their work.
I think the reason that climbing isn't mainstream is because the masses don't know enough about it to be able to relate to it. Sometimes it takes to long to explain (think about how many times you have to explain the difference between free soloing and free climbing and the masses still don't understand), but mainly, it doesn't always look that impressive. To the masses, Sharma climbing a 5.15 isn't really that impressive, because they don't understand how hard it is. They understand how hard it must be for Honnold to solo Half Dome, because a fear of heights or dying is much more common. A few months ago, there was a feature in the NYTimes sports sections about Ashima. People could relate to that not because they understand how hard a V13 is, but because they understand what it is like for a 10 year old to do any sport at a professional level. The CitiBank commercial appeals to the masses because it looks cool and has a nice view, another thing they understand.

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415
Joshw97 wrote:I disagree about the point on climbing being too spiritual to be mainstream.
One trip to a gym will completely validate this.
Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Colonel Mustard wrote:The conclusion is that climbing is a spiritual pursuit, something I feel when I'm out there, but somehow I don't think most of us are made into better, more spiritually evolved people for all our climbing. It strips us of our multiple dimensions and transforms us into a group that thinks and talks about one thing above all else. It's simply what we do because we must do it. Yes, it's pure self-gratifying navel gazing, folks, don't fool yourselves. And, therefore, as a well-practiced egotist, I am happy to report I do not give one whit what the masses think of our sport. The phonies don't understand us, they never will. Our character building sport has evolved us into.... Holden Caulfield.
I can relate to this. When I started climbing a bunch of years ago, I thought that rock climbing was the coolest thing in the world. And I was a cool person for doing it. But over the past several years I've realized we're just a bunch of people that walk through the woods, deserts, and alpine environments looking for rocks to climb. It's really not as special as I once thought it; it's quite a meaningless pursuit in the grand scheme of things. But it still means the world to me.
richard magill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 2,400

Good essay. And any Mountain Project thread that somehow weaves its way through both Cliffhanger and JD Salinger can't be all bad.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

"Climbing is a spiritual pursuit in a materialistic world."
from 'Why Climbers Aren't Famous or What Climbing Means to the Masses'

I don't buy it.
The effort and risk in our pursuit of the useless creates a tension which can lead to reflection and wisdom, but just as easily leads to vainglory and nonsense (eg Coffman and Elanor.)

Colonel Mustard · · Sacramento, CA · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,241

^^^Hahahaha, love it. He names names!

RyanJames · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 505

Great read. As John Long recently said, climbing is not a spectator sport. It's a participatory sport, only fun for those that are actively engaged in the thrill of it, a thrill that involves inching one's way up vertical monoliths using fingertips, toes, and skinny ropes. While climbing may never appeal to the masses, it will ALWAYS be fun as hell for those that are in the thick of it. Cheers!

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264
Colonel Mustard wrote: It strips us of our multiple dimensions and transforms us into a group that thinks and talks about one thing above all else. It's simply what we do because we must do it. Yes, it's pure self-gratifying navel gazing, folks, don't fool yourselves. And, therefore, as a well-practiced egotist, I am happy to report I do not give one whit what the masses think of our sport.
Couldn't agree more - climbers are the most self-centered, selfish, one-dimensional group of folks. At least skiers don't delude themselves that their pursuit of powder is selfish. Maybe if climbers stopped pondering about the meaning of climbing and just admitted that they do it for selfish reasons (joy, ego-boost, fitness, whatever), climbing would start appeal to masses, which I really don't care if it does. I'm glad that more climbers create more product innovation and competition that drive prices of gear down, but that's about it. Imagine cavers pounding their chests and whining about how laymen don't understand their sport...
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

I don't think it's fair to compare climbing to basketball or any other professional sport. The "average" NBA player puts a whole hell of a lot more time and effort into basketball than 99 percent of us put into climbing. It's his job. He is famous because he can compete at an elite level at a sport that happens to be fun to watch. If he doesn't do well, he loses his job. He loses his "fame."

If a climber doesn't do well, he just sits by the fire that night and drinks whiskey, like he would every other night. Maybe he'll succeed tomorrow, or maybe not. It doesn't really matter.

Now the question of why climbers aren't famous... That's complicated. People climb for many different reasons. "Spiritual" is a strong word, but I do know some people who fall into that category, and for them, fame is the last thing they are thinking about. But most climbers I know do it for selfish reasons (nothing wrong with that), and would jump at the chance to be famous.

I guess I'm just rambling but the article turned me off when it started talking about other sports. Climbing is not the same. Anyone who has tried to hit a 97mph fastball or run a 46 second 400 knows what I'm talking about. It makes climbing seem very easy. I'm not talking about alpinism or mountaineering, I'm talking about rock climbing, red pointing, which seems to be the most popular form of climbing by a long shot. Being in the mountains and risking your life is something else altogether, and that is certainly a spiritual endevour. Of course, for every one person doing that, there are 100 trying to repoint the green 5.12 at any gym in America.

To ank any general question about climbers, you must define climbers first. Otherwise it's like putting Michael Jordan and I in the same group because we both played basketball.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

"spiritual" - I think climbing is "spiritual" because it makes intense use of the human body and human mind in a very interesting context, and I think using the human body + mind in interesting intense ways is "spiritual".

Other ideas seem to be that ...

Death ... "Climbing is Spiritual" because it involves the possibility of death. So does driving a car out on the public roads. Anyway the way most people climb most of the time nowadays, the consequences of blowing a move or running out of arm strength is not death, but perhaps breaking an ankle. Death in climbing more often results from unexpected bad weather or silly equipment-procedure mistakes -- which to me somehow seems less "spiritual".
(No shortage of modern mainstream media appeal of actual deaths + rescues on big mountains.)

Engagement ... "Climbing is Spiritual" because it makes you forget everything else, gets you into a state of "flow". So do lots of other popular activities these days. Anyway sitting on a belay ledge while your partner is fiddling with placing his fourth piece of trad gear is not engaging.

Wide open spaces ... I really like them. But most (outdoor) rock climbing nowadays by most people does not take place in a wide open space -- rather some half-pitch crag or boulder in the woods. And there's lots of other ways to experience open spaces (and sunsets and blue skies and being out alone a long ways from the nearest town, etc.) than climbing.
Via Ferrata - some of the most dramatic settings people associate with rock climbing, like being up on a narrow arete, or above a big drop-off, are frequently incorporated into via ferrata routes in Europe, but most climbers say doing a (steel-cable-protected) via ferrata is not real climbing.

Getting to the Top as spiritual metaphor ... a couple of hundred years ago, nobody knew for sure what was at the top of very high mountains in Europe, and rock + snow climbing with unknown dangers was the only way to get there. And some climbers were "mainstream" famous because they succeeded in getting There. ? Nowadays ?

Ken

samsonight Sam · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 25

Excellent discussion and so nice to see a thread contain meaningful (though differing) points of view without devolving into name calling and ALL CAPS.

Here is my go...

As Ryan W. said, "Spiritual is a strong word." I agree, let's define it...

The Oxford dictionary describes Spiritual in simple terms:

"relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things"

In my view climbing is incredibly spiritual, for all the reasons listed above (Death, Engagement, Connection to Nature, etc.) but also because it only affects the self (call it sole, spirit, whatever...). It is, at it's heart the antithesis of "material."

Simply put, No one cares if i make it to the top of my project, there is no pot of gold waiting for me up there. The general public would have trouble caring less about my "send."

The only reward I receive is personal, whether that be mental or physical.

Yes, some people will drive this personal gain in the direction of Ego, but the gain was still personal.

To me, "Spiritual" is not about floating in lotus position, blissed out of ones mind in some misty mountain cave, it is about personal growth, fulfillment and connection to ones surroundings.

Where people take this growth and how fast they get there is up to them. Some will drive it in the direction of good (self understanding for example) others in a direction that can be perceived as bad (Ego).

Nonetheless, the spiritual nature of climbing is the vehicle that got them there.

Andrew Arredondo · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 175

Great post Luke, really enjoyed it

bergbryce · · California · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 145

dirtbag climbing has gone mainstream. look at this site.

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436

Climbers aren't famous in the U.S., but some climbers are famous in Europe.

Messner is certainly famous in Europe, as are some other climbers.

Look at Formula 1. How many people in the U.S. even know who Michael Schumacher is? In Europe, he's a celebrity.

Some sports and athletes just aren't that well known in the U.S.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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