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Where The Access Fund Should Put A Big CHUNK OF $$$$
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Nov 15, 2013
AF has actually started a program trying to help educate gym climbers in the transition to outdoor climbing. There's more material and a prg to get it out. . .

Access Fund Gym Education

Youth Stuardship Programs

Educational Videos
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,907 points
Nov 15, 2013
White Privilege wrote:
My suggestion would be to close climbing gyms. They are having hugely negative impacts on the real climbing community (and bouldering). Capitalism and climbing don't mix well.

I like that. A real dedicated climber will have his or her own home wall for more untrained noobs from the gym taking up space or trying to be instant sport climbers starting on 5.10 cuz that's what their gymmaster said they can climb. .....
and when winter comes, they tough it out and do cold rock or become ice climbers for the season to keep the adrenaline running strong.
Woodchuck ATC
Joined Nov 29, 2007
3,370 points
Nov 15, 2013
Gyms arent the problem. Humans and their/our lack of understanding (thats a simplification) is a/the key issue. a lack of understanding of our purpose, our role, our impacts.

saying gyms is the problem is the same as stating guns kill people. its not the guns, its the humans behind the guns. guns dont make themselves or their bullets nor do they pull their own trigger (or push a button regarding drones...). humans do.

humans are not in sync amongst eachother and theres no sign of it changing anytime soon (as populations grow...)
Rock Jock
From Pennsylvania
Joined Dec 5, 2012
4,653 points
Nov 15, 2013
So the access fund should teach a class on your opinions? Piss off, I listen to my Skynyrd on full blast, come down to Moores Wall and find me. Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Joined Sep 23, 2013
339 points
Nov 15, 2013
I agree with the OP.

(Am I perhaps the only one? Seems like most others are bashing on him, or gyms in general, which seems a little head-in-the-sand)

Apparently Access Fund is already doing some of this---they probably should do more.

As should Climbing magazines.
Joined Nov 30, 2009
33 points
Nov 15, 2013
skitch wrote:
From what I've been seeing lately the largest source of contention between land managers and climbers can solely be placed on the "big city gym climbers" going to the "real rock" and making a huge mess. I know that this is not being caused by all city climbers, but mostly the young'ns that haven't been mentored like most older climbers were. More attention needs to be placed on providing direction and training directed towards the gym kids. My suggestion would be to have the Access Fund provide classes at gyms through-out the country, possibly free with a membership at the gym and possibly done with volunteers. The class would teach new climbers how to behave properly when they make their big trips to the "real rock". Some subjects/topics/ideas that need to be portrayed to these people would include the following *Poop in toilets/wag bags or BURY IT FAR AWAY FROM OTHERS *NO MUSIC AT CRAGS OR BOULDERS *Keep your dog under control-digging and chasing wildlife should not be accepted! *Be friendly towards other climbers-I'm talking to you Boulderites!!! *Take turns on boulder problems, just because this is your one trip to the Buttermilks for the year doesn't mean you should cut in front of the other 5 people that are trying the same problem as you. *Don't create new parking spots just because you can *When it's crowded maybe you don't need to do 5 TR laps on your warm up *When camping do not burn pallets, the locals "get to" clean up all those f-ing nails to prevent others from getting flats, especially since people move fire rings constantly... *Don't kick the sage brush just because you fell off of your project (that you're not even close to sending) *If you bring 20 people with you to the crag you best be willing to share your rope and or draws on the routes you and all your friends are hogging *Don't smoke weed in front of other peoples kids *Nobody wants to hear about how close you were to sending "the game", but if you want everyone to laugh at you behind your back, then go on buddy.

This is 'merica bruh, ima roast bowls and kick bushes where I want.
Joined Apr 23, 2009
22 points
Nov 15, 2013

I agree with what your saying. It's not the gym or capitalism that are to blame. All these problems stem from the same place. Part of coming to a greater understanding may be seeing that we don't need some of these things, like we don't really need guns. Or maybe we should hold off on building more gyms until we can understand how to use these things in a healthy way. At this point they are a tool of dysfunction.

Altered Ego
Joined Jul 11, 2008
0 points
Nov 15, 2013
The Access Fund is currently in the process of developing a program called "Gym to Crag," which will educate gym climbers on proper outdoor safety and ethics. This is in addition to their ongoing programs like Gym Education, Youth Stewardship, and videos. This program is still in development, but should be rolling out sometime in 2014. Savanna
From Monterey, CA
Joined Dec 21, 2012
55 points
Nov 15, 2013
David Sahalie wrote:
know what I hate? people.... at MY crag! Every day I'm all like, so who is the chuffnugget that is projecting MY warm-up?!

First of all, is this YOUR crag? Is it on your land? If not, then it is not YOURS!!! If it is public property, other people are welcome to be there. Next, people projecting your warm up? I'm sorry but did you start out climbing 5.whatever you doing? No, you didn't. When you were new to climbing you probably climbed the same grade routes. Finally, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU HAVE PRIORITY?!?!?!?!?!?!!? You are not the only person at the crag, you are not the only climber in the world, so please, GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tyler Newcomb
Joined Dec 25, 2012
77 points
Nov 15, 2013
LOL. Dude, it's Sahalie. Are you new here? You're gonna blow an O ring. Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,370 points
Nov 15, 2013
They should put up signs at every crag reminding people if they have all their gear so locker doesn't blow his top every weekend. NorCalNomad Blank
From San Francisco
Joined Oct 6, 2011
127 points
Nov 15, 2013
Woodchuck ATC wrote:
or become ice climbers for the season to keep the adrenaline running strong.

Slow your roll Woodchuck! You know as well I do people do dumb shit in the winter too. The gym's warm in January.. stay there.
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
463 points
Nov 15, 2013
"Part of coming to a greater understanding may be seeing that we don't need some of these things, like we don't really need guns.

Wrong on that one, WP....

I need my gun, I use it to clear out the crag of those gym noobs....

a little target shooting, with kids and dogs around, will make em run for the hills.
Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
368 points
Nov 15, 2013
David Sahalie wrote:
sar•casm (ˈsɑr kæz əm) n. 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark. re-read with the above definition in mind but I really do hate kids at the crag... and beanies.

BE NICE! The poor kid is from the east coast, therefore he shouldn't be expected to pick up on sarcasm or have a sense of humor.
GhaMby Eagan
From Heaven
Joined Oct 2, 2006
426 points
Nov 17, 2013
I'm a land owner. The hunting groups worked for 20 years with the bumper stickers: ask before you hunt, before I noticed it working. It takes a while. At the crag, if you see a problem: point it out in as non-confrontational manner as you can and move on. It will take a while, but it will slowly sink in and you'll sleep better. It sounds like the proposed poster program the AAC is working on is a step in the right direction. Be patient, they're new and clueless. Many of us were.

To answer the OP, can't we get access to the Sphinx, Squat Rock and Etive Slab?

Thanks, Rob
rob bauer
From Golden, CO
Joined Dec 2, 2004
2,586 points
Nov 19, 2013
Are these the posters people are referring to? This is not my handy work.
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From Long Beach, Ca
Joined Dec 23, 2012
62 points
Nov 20, 2013
I think another prong to this approach, if not already mentioned, is doing what we can to make gym climbing it's own separate thing. I think all the companies that want to just make loads of money off of climbing should figure out how to do so entirely from revenue generated from people exclusively using climbing gyms. Either that or the people that just want to make loads of money off of climbing should find a different market to exploit. Our outside areas are too precious of a resource to be squandered by companies looking to expand their profits.

Joined Apr 8, 2006
2,114 points
Nov 20, 2013
The only problem with this suggestion from a rock gym's perspective is that a lot of them get revenue from "gym to crag" type classes that include rappelling, cleaning, etc. Most gyms won't market their establishment, nor allow anyone else to if they can help it, as a "separate" thing. The purpose of every business is to generate revenue. Period. If they can do so by offering quality products or services, then that is what they do. Don't confuse business with non-profit organizations. They aren't the same thing. Gyms are businesses. They will make revenues whenever and however they can within the confines of legality and good practices most of the time. And sometimes outside that. Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,370 points
Nov 20, 2013
Jake, I know that's how it works now, and I would say that has everything to do with the fact that people who only climb in gyms are traditionally frowned upon.

I am merely suggesting that instead we encourage gym climbing to be it's own thing, and encourage profiteering companies to seek profits in a climbing gym setting only. We can all help out by being less derisive toward gym climbing. Seriously, I think there is a big market there as a fun workout for people. Would you rather lift weights to stay in shape, or climb in a gym?

Mostly the folks I see ruining outside areas are the people who are not really into climbing that much and are just doing it because their friends are into it. They don't love climbing, and as a result they are often poor stewards of the areas they visit, and these people come in all ability levels. If these types of people all climbed in gyms and were not encouraged to go outside, all our areas would be much better off. Whats more, these people would still have that fun experience of doing something fun while hanging with their friends, so their lives wouldn't really be any less fulfilling.
Joined Apr 8, 2006
2,114 points
Nov 20, 2013
I totally agree. However, I don't see how you really discourage someone from venturing outside. Do you come right out and tell them "hey pal, you'd be better served by sticking the the 'ole plastic."? I think that people that are predominantly gym climbers remain as such. I know a few. Nothing wrong with that. I also think people that progress to a technical level in the gym are eventually drawn outside to see how they fare on the real thing. I think the best attempt at a solution is being discussed- the whole gym to crag education. I'm not derisive to gyms in general. I like my gym, especially since I'm quite a distance from quality outdoor climbing. It allows me to stay in shape and hopefully progress. I do see though why many people are derisive toward gyms. There is no denying that the increase in crowds and overall access issues is because climbing is becoming more prevalent. The reason for this is gyms. There seems to be no real way around it, so we're left with finding ways to manage it as best we can. Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,370 points
Nov 20, 2013
Jake and Justin,

If you look at other indoor exercise venues, we can see that there is an indoor market for outdoor activities. I work at a health club part-time. It's one of those massive chain things with everything you could think of there.

The spin class is busy even in the summer. Not as busy but busy. The yoga classes are full every class, without exception, even though you could probably stretch in your living room. There are probably 100 treadmills and another 50 elipticals, stair machines, etc, and they are constantly busy. I know a trainer who teaches a crossfit class that is at capacity, it might be busier in the summer because they open the doors and run on the well manicured lawn a little.

So yeah, working out indoors is something that people do, even during good weather.

What the big clubs haven't figured out yet is climbing. They tend to be vertical, have one brand of holds, and cater to children. It seems like with the millions and millions going into clubs like that, that with half a million more, they could build a gym the size of Rockn and Jamn or even Movement and they certainly can afford to staff it.

If I could go to a good gym with great setting, have childcare, and hop in the pool then hot tub before leaving, I would be all over that. This is a reality for tennis lovers. It's only a matter of time for plastic pulling.
From Colorado
Joined Oct 29, 2012
43 points
Nov 20, 2013
Ian Stewart wrote:
Assholes don't sign up for classes that teach them how to not be assholes...

Time to cull the Herd. I recommend setting up Machine gun nests outside of all Gyms and major bouldering areas.
R. Moran
From Moab , UT
Joined Mar 18, 2009
144 points
Nov 20, 2013
I go to the gym twice a week and get outside at least once a week during rock season and typically get out ice climbing much more than the gym during the winter. I find it funny that everyone thinks gym climbers are the problem. I'm not saying gym climbers are saints! I've had my fair share of poopy heads at the gym who can't speak up and ask if you're done climbing that route. All I'm saying is it's not just the gym rats. Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
463 points
Nov 20, 2013
Nobody gets in real fights anymore. This used to not be a problem becaus climbers were hardmen (not meaning to exlude women) and didnt put up w shit.
Pain is a consequence that speaks volumes
From the Mountains
Joined May 21, 2003
887 points
Nov 20, 2013
Kirby1013 wrote:
I find it funny that everyone thinks gym climbers are the problem. I'm not saying gym climbers are saints! I've had my fair share of poopy heads at the gym who can't speak up and ask if you're done climbing that route. All I'm saying is it's not just the gym rats.

That's because friction does not develop with one object in a vacuum. It's the self righteous indignation of climbers, (like myself), who feel that they own the crags for many reasons: we grew up at the crags, spent 20+ years at the crags, bolted those crags, had marriages at crags, slept at the crags, have been stewards of crags advocating for access and minimal impact. (if you can't denote the irony of this statement you need to go back to middle school)

We actually create the friction because we continue to go to the crags and feel resentful towards people who have only been climbing a handful of years, who don't know the history of squat, and who treat the crag as if they were the ones that cleaned, bolted, and created said crag. They are beginners, complicit with a very mediocre understanding of crag etiquette and a full complement of unjustified righteousness.

When I was 18, and 5.14 a was the hardest climb in the world, I acted just like those idiotic beginning nobblets, with no understanding of history, no appreciation of what had been created for me, and no respect for who were the leaders and role models of our little "sport".

The difference was: the crags were empty.

It was amazing if I ever saw someone at all.

Thus I was one object moving around in a vacuum, I did not develop friction, and I eventually pulled my head out of my ass.
(It usually takes about ten years of climbing to accomplish this.)

Not so much anymore.

Fucking population growth!!
Joined Mar 11, 2012
52 points

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