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When you buy this, please call me. You're welcome.
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May 4, 2016
From the real-estate ad:

"This one bedroom, one bath, two level cabin has been used only as a second home about 2-4 times a year. It is located at the base of Turkey Rock, so you have the choice of walking 5 minutes to climb, or sitting on your deck and watching others do the climbing!"


I love to chop wood, fill beer fridge, and clear defensive space
Rob Dillon
Joined Mar 22, 2002
1,041 points
May 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bolton, VT
WOW, I should buy this and airbnb it forever

Been looking at places in Denver that are shit and double the price
Nick Votto
Joined Jul 27, 2008
338 points
May 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Moving through the crux lock - now that's micro be...
Hnnnnngghhh want! Sirius
From Oakland, CA
Joined Nov 6, 2003
764 points
May 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Photo by Damien
I wish I hadn't seen this. But thank you, Rob Shelton Hatfield
Joined Apr 18, 2011
585 points
May 4, 2016
Thank me later! Rob Dillon
Joined Mar 22, 2002
1,041 points
May 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bouldering at Independence Pass
I definitely don't have the down for that just laying around... Lauren D. Hollingsworth
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Mar 9, 2006
275 points
May 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
My offer would never be accepted. 189,000 - cost to replace roof with metal - cost to replace siding with something fire retardant. Wonder what insurance is like?

Cool house though.

Forget part of that, it has a metal roof, not comfy with the siding though.
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
May 4, 2016
Anyone seriously considering purchasing this property for use as an airb&b should understand that they will likely be violating the covenents established for Turkey Rock Ranch Estates. Additionally, paying guests would still need to cross private property in order to access Turkey Rock, and I can asssure you that it is extremely unlikely that permission to cross will be granted by the current property owners, who are year round residents.

The property, known locally as the Oldenburg place, is very small, and overpriced based on recent sales in the immediate vicinity, but would make a great climber's cabin. If not used as a commercial property, you could probably obtain permission from the adjacent land owners to access Turkey Rock, but I would suggest asking before you sign a real estate contract.
Ron Pivo
Joined Mar 3, 2015
9 points
May 5, 2016
Covenants don't seem to mention any ban on vacation rentals. Check it out.

But yeah, 190K seems like an awful lot for what you're getting.
Rob Dillon
Joined Mar 22, 2002
1,041 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: first time on High E
u.zillow.com/p2IHRVD/

I can't personally afford either but for 'just' 70k more you could have the same 1 bed 1 bath in Keene Valley, NY (prime ADK location) but with a view, a deck, a guesthouse which you can AirBnB and 5+ acres which there looks to be a decent sized cliff on right below your porch. So please call ME when you buy THIS one :)

Rock Climbing Photo: bird's eye view from Bing Maps
bird's eye view from Bing Maps
Mike Hazard
Joined Mar 8, 2015
178 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
So we have a house for sale in Colorado in the middle of Forrest Fire central with wood siding and a house in the middle of the woods of New York with no insulation. WTF? Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
May 5, 2016
That development is an abomination. tim
From Boulder, CO
Joined Aug 6, 2006
60 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: first time on High E
Who needs insulation? Just fire up the wood stove and throw on a puffy then rap off your front porch to your own personal Ouray ice park that you created out of runoff from your garden hose. Mike Hazard
Joined Mar 8, 2015
178 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Mike Hazard wrote:
Who needs insulation? Just fire up the wood stove and throw on a puffy then rap off your front porch to your own personal Ouray ice park that you created out of runoff from your garden hose.


Mike, that attitude could be misconstrued, sorry. You realize that people who live in the area year around, would not be saying that, right?

Misguided buyers like you, Zillow/Trulia and other online real estate websites are driving real estate prices in rural/mountain towns insane. This is so fucked up - people buy houses without ever looking at them in person, or never even visiting the area in all seasons. Buyers from metropolitan areas with deep pockets think any shithole with a sub 300k price tag is a bargain, while locals who have to live and work in the community year around and make the area viable and attractive in the first place, can barely or not afford that.

Case and point, there is a second home in Ouray that's been on the market forever got hit by a 2-ton boulder. Apparently they missed an obvious mud-slide/rockfall wall behind the property. They took sweet 100k off the asking price, but it's still priced at 280 -wtf?
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
412 points
May 5, 2016
Doligo, I'm assuming you missed just a bit of sarcasm from Mikes post.

And realty websites aren't driving up real estate prices in rural/mountain towns, supply and demand are.
mediocre
Joined Jul 18, 2013
0 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Whitney portal.....bony fingers
doligo.... very uptight...dumb broad...talk about an idiot.. oh..." im sorry " lou
Joined Feb 13, 2006
80 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Sorry, I didn't catch the sarcasm. But it the point still is the Internet is making price inflation easier. Especially with vacation rentals or slight possibility of vacation rentals. I myself, am guilty of salivating over $50K cabins near RRG, but I have no idea what it is like to live around there except for it's close to the world class climbing area. Like in this case of the cabin by Turkey Rocks - yeah, as a climber you find a value in it but only limited amount of days in a year, while the rest of the year you have to deal with either flush floods or fire. True market forces/rules are only valid in more populated areas, in rural areas it's very easy to skew the comps with one wacky deal. I personally know (or know of) two people who signed the deal without visiting the property.

P.S. sounds like even Denver is moving in the right direction by moving to ban full-time vacation rentals that are not occupied by owners.
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
412 points
May 5, 2016
Judging from the (low) amount of traffic, closed shades, empty yards etc. the Turkey Rocks Estates is not exactly a vibrant community. Not sure how many jobs there are in that neck of the woods but I think given the no-trailer policy, minimum house size requirements etc. there's probably cheaper places to live in the greater Woodland Park area.

House in question is currently unoccupied, FWIW.

But I hear ya doligo, there's nothing good about wealthy urbanites trying to purchase a fantasy of mountain-town life that they've done nothing to actually commit to or create, and driving out the actual locals who are trying to eke out that life in the bargain.
Rob Dillon
Joined Mar 22, 2002
1,041 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Clipping the last bolt before the roof. Fun climb,...
Hahaha I actually went and looked at this place in January. Its small and not worth 189,000. There are adjacent property lots between this property and the public land and rocks. I contacted the owners of said property just to see if they were interested in selling, and they were not at this time. The covenants allow for property to be rented, but no businesses may operate within the estates other than rentals. Dan Cooksey
From Colorado Springs
Joined Jan 7, 2014
255 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: first time on High E
Yea, I'm not a misguided home buyer - I'm not a home buyer at all actually. I do think it's maybe a bit overpriced and I wasn't actually planning on or suggesting that (although I do have a real estate license and if someone thinks it's a good idea I'll be happy to represent you).

Assuming someone reading this is now interested in purchasing this lovely piece of paradise... if you did want to rent out the included guest house full time as a vacation property you could skirt any future laws banning you from doing so since you could hypothetically be occupying the main residence. And then charge an admission fee to your ice climbing park.
Mike Hazard
Joined Mar 8, 2015
178 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: first time on High E
To be clear I am still being sarcastic... Even though no one/nothing is ever going to make prices in Keene Valley (or any other rural/mountain town near good climbing/fishing/hiking/kayaking/etc.) go down ever again. Mike Hazard
Joined Mar 8, 2015
178 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
doligo wrote:
STrue market forces/rules are only valid in more populated areas, in rural areas it's very easy to skew the comps with one wacky deal. P.S. sounds like even Denver is moving in the right direction by moving to ban full-time vacation rentals that are not occupied by owners.

With all do respect, Denver City council is sticking up for Hotel operators, nice of them to put the vaneer of "protecting the little guy" on their cynical regulations

Also, you are about 40 years too late. My whole family comes from one of these towns, Crested Butte, going back to the 1800s. First it was hippies moving in during the 60s and 70s who were 180 degrees opposite of the locals who created that town, then well healed investors, connected to the area by the trust fund hippies, came in during the 90s and so on. Things change, that's all there is to it. Honestly, Crested Butte was pretty damn run down when I was a little kid. Are there things I miss, sure, but over all the town looks great but I will probably never be able to afford to live there.

In the 1800s, you could have walked through any remote area of Colorado and run into a Miner, rancher, farmer etc. There were less people but they were very well dispersed.
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
May 5, 2016
Rick Blair wrote:
With all do respect, Denver City council is sticking up for Hotel operators, nice of them to put the vaneer of "protecting the little guy" on their cynical regulations



They might be sticking up for the hotels, but they are certainly protecting the little guy too. And I dont think the regulation are cynical, they are needed with how the cost of living is getting out of control. I know several people who rent places from landlords (multiple places) just to re-rent them on AirBnB for a profit. Another bunch that has snatched up real estate around the city exclusively to rent on AirBnB. Surely it has had a hand in driving up rent and real estate prices in the city.
jason.cre
Joined Aug 6, 2014
10 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Rick Blair wrote:
With all do respect, Denver City council is sticking up for Hotel operators, nice of them to put the vaneer of "protecting the little guy" on their cynical regulations Also, you are about 40 years too late. My whole family comes from one of these towns, Crested Butte, going back to the 1800s. First it was hippies moving in during the 60s and 70s who were 180 degrees opposite of the locals who created that town, then well healed investors, connected to the area by the trust fund hippies, came in during the 90s and so on. Things change, that's all there is to it. Honestly, Crested Butte was pretty damn run down when I was a little kid. Are there things I miss, sure, but over all the town looks great but I will probably never be able to afford to live there. In the 1800s, you could have walked through any remote area of Colorado and run into a Miner, rancher, farmer etc. There were less people but they were very well dispersed.


There are many bustling mining towns that had populations of 10K+ in 1800s that are now ghost. There is nothing wrong with newcomers if it helps your community thrive year around. The issue is with speculators and second-home owners (many who buy on impulse), whose net contribution to the community is zero or close to zero (property taxes barely cover for all the services they get).
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
412 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
jason.cre wrote:
They might be sticking up for the hotels, but they are certainly protecting the little guy too. And I dont think the regulation are cynical, they are needed with how the cost of living is getting out of control. I know several people who rent places from landlords (multiple places) just to re-rent them on AirBnB for a profit. Another bunch that has snatched up real estate around the city exclusively to rent on AirBnB. Surely it has had a hand in driving up rent and real estate prices in the city.

Increase supply will lower demand thus price. What is city council doing to increase supply? Ability to rent a property makes it more valuable to supply properties. The snake is eating its own tail with these regulations.
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
May 5, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
doligo wrote:
whose net contribution to the community is zero or close to zero (property taxes barely cover for all the services they get).


I don't know what this even means. If they are not there then they are not accessing any services. If they are there, they have the money to shop, eat out, buy a raft trip etc.

There is no market for affordable housing in resort towns for 3 reasons.
1. Trust funders who don't care how much a property costs to rent.
2. High school/college kids who move up for 2 months and pack a bunch of people into a 1 bedroom apartment and then leave, they will pay alot.
3. 3rd world immigrant labor whose expected standard of living is much lower and will therefore pack a bunch of people into a small living space.

No downward price pressure, its that simple.
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points


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