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What did trad racks look like before cams came around?

Original Post
Andrew Gilsdorf · · Jackson · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

Did they have triples in nuts like we do in cams? When did tricams first come in the scene? I'm assuming there were a lot of pitons but I'm more interested in clean pro

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
Andrew Gilsdorf wrote:Did they have triples in nuts like we do in cams? When did tricams first come in the scene?
Hexes and Stoppers. Doubles in some sizes.

I remember articles (Off Belay magazine) about Abalokov cams and TriCams in the 1970s. I think Tricams were first sold in the early '80s.

Edit: needlesports.com/content/nu…
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

hexes and gigantic nuts.

frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
wivanoff wrote: Hexes and Stoppers. Doubles in some sizes. I remember articles (Off Belay magazine) about Abalokov cams and TriCams in the 1970s. I think Tricams were first sold in the early '80s. Edit: needlesports.com/content/nu…
I think you're referring to camlocks, not tricams. They were the absolute worst nuts out there as I recall. Racks were pretty much nuts and hexes with the larger nuts slung on perlon. It's amazing how versatile hexes are once you know how to use them.
Mike N. · · San Diego, CA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0
Aleks Zebastian wrote:climbing friend, ...gigantic nuts.
In every sense of the phrase.
JK- Branin · · NYC-ish · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 56
Aleks Zebastian wrote:gigantic nuts.
That basically covers a lot of early trad climbing...
PTR · · NEPA · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 10

My first rack in the mid-1980s consisted of about 8 WC Rocks on wire (sizes 1-8 or so) which were on 1 biner. Then I had two biners with nuts on perlon -- a mixture of brands: Chouinard, Cassin, and Saddlewedges (maybe 10 pieces total). Then I had a biner full of hexes on perlon -- maybe 5 or 6 of those.

That was pretty much it. There was a little bit (but not much) overlap between the wires and the nuts on perlon on one end -- and the nuts on perlon and the hexes on the other end. The whole concept of doubles and triples never occurred to me. After my first visit to the Gunks, I picked up the pink and red tricams. It also took a few years to transition from knotted 1" slings to sewn slings, which were still a luxury for me at that stage.

In any event, that rack sure was light compared to my modest cam collection (I think have an even dozen). The knotted slings, on the other hand, were very bulky and awkward to use. Glad to get rid of those.

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
frank minunni wrote: I think you're referring to camlocks, not tricams. They were the absolute worst nuts out there as I recall. Racks were pretty much nuts and hexes with the larger nuts slung on perlon. It's amazing how versatile hexes are once you know how to use them.
No, I'm referring to Abalokov cams which looked like just like TriCams. It was "Off Belay" Issue #9 Feb 1978

This is what they looked like:
supertopo.com/climbing/thre…

I know what camlocks were.
mountainproject.com/v/10749…
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

it's not so much what they looked like, it's what they sounded like...

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

If you were doing some long sustained crack climbing the racks could get pretty big and could have a lot of doubles of big hexes. I can remember clanking up the tail to Devils Tower in the mid 70's carrying a lot of #10 and 11 (Choiunard) hexes. Classic cowbell.

PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0

A set of stoppers with doubles of the medium sizes, and a set of hexes. Small ones were wired and larger ones were on cord (or webbing). I think I had a set of RPs before I had Friends.

No triples of anything and the entire rack fit on 5 or 6 oval biners.

frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95

No, I'm referring to Abalokov cams which looked like just like TriCams. It was "Off Belay" Issue #9 Feb 1978 This is what they looked like:/quote>

Cool. I never saw those. But that was my first year climbing so I didn't have a clue...still don't, apparently. But you have to admit, those camlocks were pretty terrible.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

As said, doubles of stoppers and hexes. No locking biners. 120 ft. rope. Climb.

Sometimes we'd have to just stop, out of rope, out of gear and belay on one or no pieces. Even if we had a piece or two in as an anchor, as a rule we never trusted anchors in general and, so long as the belay wasn't hanging, we stanced all the belays. Stancing under those circumstances can see it raised to a real craft. It was all hip belayed as well, even on hard multipitch lines. A very few would shoulder belay seconds, but I never had much faith or appreciation for it when I'd get to the belay and unexpectedly find someone doing it.

jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55

One passive pro every 5-6 m and the leader must not fall. Plus one small back-up set of pins and a hammer in case of bailing.

Eric Engberg wrote:If you were doing some long sustained crack climbing the racks could get pretty big and could have a lot of doubles of big hexes. I can remember clanking up the tail to Devils Tower in the mid 70's carrying a lot of #10 and 11 (Choiunard) hexes. Classic cowbell.
Only the new thin-walled hexes really produce the characteristic sound. The old hexes don't sound particularly different or louder than any other metallic piece of gear.
wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
frank minunni wrote: Cool. I never saw those. But that was my first year climbing so I didn't have a clue...still don't, apparently. But you have to admit, those camlocks were pretty terrible.
Oh God, yes. I think I had one Camlock that I had bootied or found. It was awful. Someone probably threw it away.

AFAIK, the Abalokov cams were not commercially available (at least not in USA). The cam design coordinates were published and people made their own. Although the ones in that photo look like they perhaps were made by some cottage business (like RPs).

@Healyje: I forgot about 120 ft ropes. They also came in 150 and 165.
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
wivanoff wrote: Oh God, yes. I think I had one Camlock that I had bootied or found.
Camlocks ruthlessly sucked and only an idiot would have placed one more than once in its camming configuration as opposed to just as a stopper - we called them 'Nolocks'.

jktinst wrote:One passive pro every 5-6 m and the leader must not fall. Plus one small back-up set of pins and a hammer in case of bailing.
We fell all the time and never could understand wtf the 'leader must not fall' thing was all about. No hammer, no pins. Did do a lot of threading and picking up the occasional rock during the pitch to use as a stopper ('natural pro' - did it a bunch on a RR FA called 'Tin Pan Alley' just a couple of years ago with Scary Larry up in First Creek).
jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55
Healyje wrote: We fell all the time and never could understand wtf the 'leader must not fall' thing was all about. No hammer, no pins. Did do a lot of threading and picking up the occasional rock during the pitch to use as a stopper ('natural pro' - did it a bunch on a RR FA called 'Tin Pan Alley' just a couple of years ago with Scary Larry up in First Creek).
Just a different perspective from early 80s mostly limestone climbing in Southern France and definitely not at the cutting edge either. I did fall on occasion and the pro held but I definitely tried not to.

I remember seeing the rigid-stemmed Friends for the first time on the rack of a guy I was seconding. He carried only 5 or 6 of them in addition to the standard minimalist passive pro rack and they looked horribly bulky and heavy.
Suburban Roadside · · Abovetraffic on Hudson · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 2,419

The saying the leader must never fall, was told to me by Fritz and Hans.
They would delight in scaring us with stories of hemp ropes that would snap if shock loaded.

#1, SMC Cam Lock Only & Best use

Healyje wrote: Camlocks ruthlessly sucked and only an idiot would have placed one more than once in its camming configuration as opposed to just as a stopper - we called them 'Nolocks'. . . . . . . We fell all the time. . . . Did do a lot of threading and picking up the occasional rock during the pitch to use as a stopper ('natural pro' - did it a bunch on a RR FA called 'Tin Pan Alley' just a couple of years ago with Scary Larry up in First Creek).
Larry Schaffer? With a limp? From New York via South Dakota ? That scary Larry?
Frank M you remember that cat,
failed solo on stir-up Trouble?, grab the lead cord on P38, causing that climber to fall
rope burns all around, and he broke that ankle.
Steve Williams · · The state of confusion · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 235

Like this. . .

Old rack

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Michael Schneider wrote:Larry Schaffer?
De Angelo...though your's sounds scarier.
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

You could get the 3 smallest hexes on wire BUT with holes still sized for rope 4-5mm, so you could either epoxy the top so it wouldn't slide through or put a bit of a kink in the wire just before the nut !

Rp's were a huge deal for us in NH,,I think first in 80 ? i know I had a bunch before spring of '81 a real game changer. Friends had been out since '79, but not yet half sizes i think.

Of course the best was the "quickdraw" 9/16" supertape, usually doubled up and water knotted. Single biner'd wires were very common and a double biner for fixed pins was as well. The first sewn slings I got were '81 from john bouchard..i was pretty skeptical!!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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