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Vitamins and supplements
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Oct 29, 2009
Aerili wrote:
Can you imagine a world where we all just accepted everything that other people told us with nothing to back it up?

I believe they call that the dark ages, or church.
From a botched genetics experiment
Joined Apr 24, 2008
0 points
Oct 29, 2009
Shawn Mitchell wrote:
Aerili, you didn't specifically criticize glucosamine and MSM. The mass hysteria for them seems pretty universal, and I think I remember reading about substantiating studies(?)

Aerili wrote:
Yeah, there are some good studies backing it up, but mostly JUST for knee arthritis, I think. Nothing else, really.

Glucosamine/Chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT)

The primary study was for osteoarthritis pain.

The ancillary study is for determining whether Glucosamine/chondroitin can diminish structural damage.

Food for thought, about 60% showed decreased signs of osteoarthritis pain with the placebo.

Aerili wrote:
And, not really sure what your criteria for being "so young" is.

You're young. Get over it :)
From Rio Rancho, NM
Joined Mar 16, 2009
25 points
Oct 29, 2009
brentapgar wrote:
Tradster- Maybe EVS will chime in, since he works in the industry.

Three brands stand at the top, Karuna, Pure Encapsulations, and Designs For Health. They are all practitioner brands that cannot be bought at a store, you need to open a professional account or get them from someone who has one. As for what you can get at the store, a couple standouts are Solgar and Country Life. I think Source Naturals is a decent brand, and they make everything you could possibly ever consider putting in a capsule or pill, like every variation of every amino acid, everything, it's weird. You don't need to be downing dozens of pills a day, a few basic ones can help fill in the gaps in the modern food supply.

As far as what you said Aerili, my personal experimentation only comes after trusted, extremely experienced counsel and convincing scientific evidence has been examined. I don't shun any research, I respect it all, but I know how to read it properly and determine if the studies were conducted in an effective way and if the numbers presented are applicable in the real world. Unfortunately many "facts" embraced by the medical community in this country neglect a wholistic view of the human organism, and are just plain incorrect. Sorry to burst your bubble, and I know there's no chance in hell you'll ever agree with me, but that's alright. I don't think it's a "fault to demand some sort of evidence that something works," where did you even get that? If I haven't researched and personally tried something I would never recommend it to anyone else.

We may be mortal enemies on this front, but next time you're in Boulder, look me up and we should get a drink, and only talk about climbing.

This has gotten preposterous, I'm going climbing (more like skiing, 4 feet at Moffat), catch y'all on the flip side.
Evan S
From Erie, CO
Joined Dec 30, 2007
275 points
Feb 27, 2010
Chia Seeds with lime and honey Jasonn
Joined Dec 3, 2009
0 points
Feb 28, 2010
Hey folks,

I am really, really skeptical of the supplement industry and generally prefer to eat food rather than ingest powders or pills (esp. with respect to fish oil!). And coffee rules. It is a wonder supplement.

That said, I would say that i am a big fan of creatine, at least in terms of strength training. I was surprised to hear people talking about it as if it is known to be bad for you. Is there something i am missing? I have not seen anything conclusive with respect to negative long-term or even short term side-effects.

Anecdotally speaking, I understand that many olympic records were shattered when creatine was introduced (circa early 90s?). There are a lot of academic studies supporting creating for strength training and even supplement-skeptic trainers like Clarence Bass consider creatine to be a remarkable exception. My cousin is a climber and a sports medicine M.D., and he only recommends creatine and whey protein.

If I were to try and quantify things, after about 2 weeks of taking creatine, I am about 15-25% more capable of accomplishing taxing anaerobic tasks. In the non-climbing gym, I can somewhat quantify that. That may not seem like a lot, but it is really huge over the medium to long term. It seems to speed recovery as well.

I definitely gain weight when training with creatine and some is certainly muscle mass gain and some must be water gain. Hell, I am not a high-end sport climber like some posters. If anything, I may get sloppier, technique wise, when i am really strong. Still, you might give creatine a try. I use the basic creatine monohydrate from GNC: about 5 grams a day and maybe 10 on a heavy training day. I bought some cheaper stuff that was a fine powder rather than a fine crystal and it didn't work as well.

Let me know your thoughts if you have an opinion otherwise or especially if you have heard that there is conclusive evidence that creatine is bad for people who are healthy.

Cheers from Osaka!

John Shultz
From Osaka, Japan
Joined Dec 6, 2008
5 points
Feb 28, 2010
Cordyceps Cs-4 mushrooms. They give more endurance, improve lung function, and boost the immune system. Justin Dansby
From GA
Joined Mar 20, 2007
1,365 points
Feb 28, 2010
There's lots of talk nowadays about big doses of Vitamin D, especially for New Englanders in the winter. It has to do with the angle of the sun not providing enough intensity to stimulate Vit D synthesis in the body (which is a big part of Seasonal Affective Disorder).

Some will say that there are overdose risks of fat-soluble vitamins, but it is not uncommon for the elderly in nursing homes to get a single injection of 600,000 IU once a year!. A Vitamin D supplement in the winter may give you a boost of energy and motivation, but who knows what to believe these days.
From Cape Ann
Joined Apr 22, 2007
365 points
Feb 28, 2010
DFrench wrote:
especially for New Englanders in the winter. It has to do with the angle of the sun not providing enough intensity to stimulate Vit D synthesis in the body (which is a big part of Seasonal Affective Disorder).

I hear that. I'd take anything that would prevent the winter funk.

I have begun drinking a powdered soy protein shake in the morning. I mix it in with a glass of soy milk. Also, I take a multi-vitamin in the evening.

This might be a bit off topic, but I have tried to cut down my intake of gluten. Yes, that means that I have also cut out beer. I don't think I really have a gluten allergy, but it became clear to me that a bunch of wheat was not agreeing with my system. I feel so much better than when I was drinking beer and eating Wheat Thins.
Jay Knower
From Campton, NH
Joined Jul 1, 2001
5,118 points
Feb 28, 2010
I've been volunteering at a natural foods coop for years, and I've heard it all. Lately it's mangosteen, in the form of the cure-all elixir XanGo. One proven side effect is that many of those selling Xango start seeing their friends as consumers.

I don't take supplements or vitamins except occasional high doses of Vitamin C. It's like sleeping in a super cushy bed for years - it might make you feel good, but when you have to sleep on the ground you're screwed. Also, I don't drink a lot of water, and I seem to be able to go a long time without it. I think people can unwillingly create artificial dependencies by consuming excessive amounts of just about anything. I have no scientific evidence to back that claim up.

I believe we can get everything our bodies need from a diet consisting of a large variety of foods. Eat a little, and change it up a lot. I'm a fan of the Rainbow Diet. Eat as many colors as you can, especially orange, purple, yellow, green and red. Limit the brown.
Eric Krantz
From Black Hills
Joined Feb 21, 2004
235 points
Feb 28, 2010
John Shultz wrote:
Let me know your thoughts if you have an opinion otherwise or especially if you have heard that there is conclusive evidence that creatine is bad for people who are healthy.

There's nothing that I have seen, heard or read to suggest that supplementing dietary intake of creatine is in any way unhealthy. If there were some kind of long term effects I'm pretty sure that we would have seen something in the bodybuilding population by now. Some of those guys have been doing 20grams/day for a couple of decades now.
Hope that helps

On the topic of water retention:
As far as the fear that using creatine will all of a sudden add 10 pounds of water to your body, it's not going to happen. That and there are now many other forms of creatine on the market. Originally there was mono-hydrate but now you can use alkyline or ethyl-ester forms of creatine which don't cause additional water absorption.

Any time I've read info from or talked to "experts" on the topic of using supplements to increase human performance Creatine always makes the top five. Glutamine and a good whey protein isolate post workout are also always on that list.

Here's hoping that spring is just around the corner so that I can get outside and put the winter training/plastic pulling to use,
Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Joined Oct 20, 2007
35 points

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