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Us and Them (aka The Route Formerly Known as Negro Girls) 

YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 17 British: HVS 5a R

Type:  Trad, 2 pitches, 250'
Original:  YDS: 5.9 French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 17 British: HVS 5a R [details]
FA: Kurt Smith and Dave Hague, Spring 1984
Page Views: 3,686
Submitted By: Woody Stark on Nov 9, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (6)
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This is the first route to the right of Walk on the Wild Side and, in my opinion, superior to it. It's runout a bit - particularily getting to the first bolt, but that only adds to the interesting character of the route. I've led in three or four times.


P1) 4 bolts to bolted anchor/rap P2) 2 bolts to bolted anchor/rap

Controversy Over Name? 

Click here for a lengthy and colorful discussion on the topic of the former name.

Comments on Us and Them (aka The Route Formerly Known as Negro Girls) Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Feb 19, 2016
By Woody Stark
Oct 11, 2004

I'd like to make a modification to my description above: this route is only one pitch. I've always continued up to the ledge system where the routes to the left finish. If you do the "second pitch", tis a bit run out since there's no pro. As you approach the ledge, veering right is about 5.7; and the further left you go, the rating goes up. Considering the run out is about a hundred feet or so, it's quite stimulating. This "second pitch" situation exists because I didn't bother to check the guide before I climbed it the first time. Actually, not checking the guide adds a whole new aspect to climbing.
By The Gray Tradster
Mar 29, 2009

Woody found the two bolts on the second pitch last year, with a little help.

They are a bit right of what looks from the belay like the logical line and hard to see. Not that suprising considering that the first one is at least 50 ft out.
By Luis Orozco
From: Covina, CA
Jan 17, 2012

accidentally combined this with walk on the wild side thought is made the route better
By Stich
From: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jan 14, 2013

The route was bolted by Kurt Smith on lead while Roy McClenahan was free soloing nearby. More details below from Roy himself:
By Fat Dad
From: Los Angeles, CA
Aug 15, 2014

Poorly named route.
By Brian Chastain
Oct 27, 2014

There are some manky spinning button heads on this thing. Got my attention as one was clinking in the wind up against the rock prior to clipping it. I traversed in two bolts of it from WOTW and then back left to the first anchors of WOTW. Made it actually WILD! Also the Vogel guide has it at 10b??
By owen david
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2016

Is there a confederate flag hanging from the anchors of this route?
Did Roy McClenahan think of this name? It really should be reconsidered.
By Russ Walling
Jan 5, 2016

I think Roy might be African American, so maybe it is ok??
By lou
Feb 6, 2016

Great... now we can't say negro... how bout oriental... indian.. french.... get over it... get some hard bark on ya n man up for christ sake..... if u want to ultra pc .. become a politician.. not a climber... or get the tampex out of your climbing pack
By lozo bozo
Feb 7, 2016

+1 Lou!!
By Shelton Hatfield
Feb 7, 2016

Lou, way to be... incredibly sexist. Why alienate women from the climbing world? Maybe you don't even realize that you're doing it, but by implying that having "tampex" (I assume you mean tampax) in your climbing pack makes you a wuss (my interpretation of your comment), you are not insulting the person your jab was aimed at but instead you are insulting ALL WOMEN (the people who might actually have "tampex" in their pack). Not especially surprising from someone who says things like "man up for christ sake". Do you understand that being a man doesn't make you brave/strong/etc, right? And that being a woman doesn't make you cowardly/weak/etc, right? It's hard to tell from your comments. I may get flamed for this, but I hope someone can appreciate my words.

No one said you can't say negro. You can say whatever the hell you want. Some people just make an effort not to be offensive. Others, not so much.
By jezbrochill
Feb 7, 2016

+1 Shelton
By Dallas Branum
From: Leadville, Colorado
Feb 18, 2016

+1 Shelton

You can certainly say whatever you want... but that doesn't make you any less racist, or any less of an asshole.
By Roy Mc
From: Nederland, CO
Feb 19, 2016

Hold the phone people. A correction is needed.

Woody Stark misattributed this route. The FA goes to Kurt Smith and Ken Ariza, spring of 1984.

I just checked with Kurt Smith to see what he named it.
The name of the route is: Us and Them. The reference is to a Pink Floyd song.

I was present for the FA, generally being a pain, I soloed up to Kurt as he was drilling the last bolt, but he finished the lead while I waited. Woody must've heard this story and didn't get it quite right, giving me the credit for the FA, which is wrong.

I have no idea how the route became named Negro Girls. It wasn't my route to name.
By owen david
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 19, 2016

Thanks for researching Roy!! Wow, you've uncovered a mystery here!! Kind of a fantastic story in it's own right.

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