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Hueco: V-easy Font: 3

Type:  Boulder, 20'
Original:  Hueco: V-easy Font: 3 [details]
FA: Zach Bramel
Page Views: 759
Submitted By: Zach Bramel on Mar 23, 2015

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One hard move to the lip joins with a few more moves into Gaia. Instead of heading around the boulder, head directly up and the point, and ascend into the heavens and join Uranus.


Start on face, two gastons.



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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Apr 1, 2016
By Zach Bramel
From: MN
Mar 4, 2016

Uh, okay? Care to shed any more light on this?

It has been listen in the guidebook as a project, that has been open for quite some time... It is hard to believe that we missed the FA in our research for the guidebook. It is possible, and am open to any details you bring to light.
By Doug Lintz
From: Kearney, NE
Mar 6, 2016

I've got nothing to add regarding FAs on this chunk as I only had eyes for one hard line on this side of the boulder (back when I was strong LOL)...starting low and left, traversing the lip, into and past the gastons, and into the middle of the overhanging face, then up. Never came close to getting past the gastons.

That said, you have this and Gaia listed as "V-easy". Seems like they'd be harder than that. I never did those specific lines up this boulder but surely they're more difficult than 5.10+ moves.
By Zach Bramel
From: MN
Mar 8, 2016

Doug. I gave it V-easy as I never proposed a grade for the climb. Im not trying to sandbag people. I could have easily given it a V20+ rating, this was just the side the coin landed on.
By Chris treggE
From: Madison, WI
Mar 8, 2016

Yo Zach nice work. I respect the high end climbers who don't propose a rating for the hard stuff they do. But they also are not posting those problems on a beta website, those problems are usually disseminated via climbing mag, etc. Since this is a beta website, how about a guess? I am sure you can narrow it down to 1-2 numbers somewhere in between V-easy and V20+.
By Jon Marek
From: Sioux Falls, SD
Mar 25, 2016

Wow! Nice job! That first move is such an obvious start but I had totally written it off as V-double digit. Blows my mind that this might be only v6...I gotta come home sometime to revisit this boulder. That has to be a pretty big plus sign...or pieta needs a serious downgrade...

Edit to remove part of comment: cuz being a jerk is not cool.
By Chris treggE
From: Madison, WI
Mar 29, 2016

Jon, I put V6+ on it a couple weeks after my above request. It was listed as V-easy which clearly is silly. This is a beta website and as such people use it to find stuff to project and/or know what's in an area prior to visiting. I didn't know what to put on it, hence the V6+. I'm happy to change it to V10 or whatever, or the FA/OP can do that himself. But having V-easy listed on a possible double digit problem is counterproductive.
By Zach Bramel
From: MN
Mar 31, 2016


While I understand your point, and I do recognize that you are the administrator, I must say that you don't own this website, you dont own the culture, and it is not up to you how any of us put these three ingredients together.

It is sort of shocking to me how pushy you are being here about this very thing. Your opinion is welcomed here, but I do not recognize it as authoritative. Please quit using your administrative capabilities to artificially propose a grade. By doing so, you are putting words in my mouth which I did not consent to.

If it is not clear, I will say it bluntly: please remove the V6+ grade that you have proposed under my name. I did not do that, you did.

You may disagree with my labeling it as V-easy, but I have provided an explanation.

Maybe you could use your administrative powers to petition Mountain Project for an "ungraded" option instead? I would much rather pick that one.

I will say it again in a different way: I am not trying to sandbag anyone here. I just dont want to propose a grade here. If you'd like, I'll propose V-(the biggest option I can pick). doesn't matter either way to me.
By Nick Wilder
Site Landlord
From: The Bubble
Mar 31, 2016

Hey guys, this would probably be better offline, but since this is the first case of this situation, let's have it public.

This website's primary purpose is to help people find and enjoy climbs that they might like. Providing that service requires that climbs be rated properly.

For the same reason, we will not be adding an "unrated" option. That doesn't help people either.

Please give all routes your best guess at a rating. Feel free to contact me directly if you wish to discuss further.

And thanks, as always, for contributing to MP!
By Zach Bramel
From: MN
Mar 31, 2016


I do not want to propose a grade. If that is the tax I must pay to post my knowledge of this boulder here to share with everyone, then I would rather not be a contributor.

It seems to me that if the end-game is to gain communal knowledge of rock climbing routes, Mountain Project would be better off enabling them to share what they could, rather than alienating anyone who didn't provide exactly all the information YOU deem as important.

I cant tell you how many times I have been here looking for beta for any given crag, trying to find a LOCATION for a problem, only to be met with a lack of any real directions or location or something subtle like "go up the hill and its on your left". If you asked me if I should have these problems removed from this website or leave them be, wishing they were more accurate but thankful for what I had, I would choose the latter.

What I am saying, Nick, is that if we are treating my lack of a proposed grade as an issue that is unacceptable, and if that metric is given equal weight as any other metric for a piece of rock (Name, location, directions, conditions, protection) then I would expect to see equal to all other short-comings on all other routes and boulders on this site. Right? Because that lack of any of it is, as has been evidenced here, unacceptable.

Lastly: If I must propose a grade, then I will propose a grade of "V-easy". You guys can all go to southern Minnesota and try it yourself if you'd like. I am fine with being called a jerk.

EDIT: I just saw your request to respond privately. It didnt happen. Sorry.
By Doug Hemken
From: Madison, WI
Apr 1, 2016

Just another opinion here, but I think Zach should have an "ungraded" option. I realize it is "old school", but I think climbers should always be encouraged to look at the rock and read it for themselves.

Zach, if you are going to give something a grade that is deliberately wrong, you should highlight that in the DESCRIPTION, not just put it in the comments as an afterthought.
By AntVicino
Apr 1, 2016

This is a ridiculous conversation through and through. As the FA Zach has the right not to propose a grade for a number of reasons. I know Zach's reasons for not giving a grade are very personal and as such I respect his decision to not see this climb as merely just a grade. For him it represented something a bit more than that. If the community here at Mountain Project can't accept and support that, then you're going to alienate one of Minnesota's staunchest climbing advocates.

It seems Mountain Project (and individuals within the community) are putting an unjust amount of weight on grades alone. Going so far as to suggest placeholder grades for climbs they have not even done themselves.

I don't know who else (if anybody) has done this climb besides Zach and myself. If it'll end the argument and allow Zach the ability to stick to the ideal he originally set forth in NOT grading this boulder, than I humbly suggest these grades.

Gaia - V6
Uranus - V7
Uranus Sit Direct - v10 (to my knowledge I'm the only one who has done this)
Uranus Sit Left - V9

There, now you have your grades and all is right with the world. Hallelujah!

(Also, I agree with Doug. Zach should have an ungraded option if he so chooses. That's a shortcoming of Mountain Project, however, and not of Zach.)

(As an aside: This is a real waste of the community's time and energy. this is a little known, out of the way boulder. Mountain Project wants to get in a huff about the importance of labeling everything, then fine, but you're gonna end up with stuff like this:
Rock Climbing Photo: This is what happens when you insist on everything...
This is what happens when you insist on everything being labeled. Community wins!

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