Trendy climbing habits perhaps better for Joe-stud than average joe?

It seems to me that several of the trendy climbing techniques are started by the elite and then copied by the masses that perhaps fit the needs better of the elite.
I get the impression some of the copying is done to make the climbers feel bad-ass.

I'm talking about super skinny ropes, simulclimbing, and super linking pitches.

SUPER SKINNY ROPES - I personally get nervous climbing on the floss that some of my partners call a rope. This makes sense to me for the final redpoint attempt on a really hard or especially long pitch but not for everyday cragging or low level adventure climbing. Is the risk/reward ratio there?
A quick google search on the risks of super skinny ropes turned up the below:

andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragma…
rockandice.com/lates-news/t…

SIMULCLIMBING - yes I simul occasionally. It can certainly make sense in an alpine environment. But to me often the simulclimbing serves no purpose other than possibly to feel more bad ass. Several times I have asked people simuling if they were out for a big day or what they were going to climb next. The responses were they were just trying to get off the route (on beautiful days). Why?

SUPER LINKING PITCHES
Everyone links pitches but these days it almost seems like it is a competition as to who can be the most badass and link the most pitches. Almost every multipitch climb description will have others comments about what to link. Perhaps it's all just trying to be helpful but sometimes I get the impression it's a one up/bad ass competition.

So if you use super skinny ropes, simulclimb a lot, and love to talk about all the pitches you linked do you do it because it made sense based on a risk/reward/enjoyment analysis or because it makes you feel more badass?

I am curious.

Lou Hibbard wrote:It seems to me that several of the trendy climbing techniques are started by the elite and then copied by the masses that perhaps fit the needs better of the elite. I get the impression some of the copying is done to make the climbers feel bad-ass. I'm talking about super skinny ropes, simulclimbing, and super linking pitches. SUPER SKINNY ROPES - I personally get nervous climbing on the floss that some of my partners call a rope. This makes sense to me for the final redpoint attempt on a really hard or especially long pitch but not for everyday cragging or low level adventure climbing. Is the risk/reward ratio there? A quick google search on the risks of super skinny ropes turned up the below: andy-kirkpatrick.com/cragma… rockandice.com/lates-news/t… SIMULCLIMBING - yes I simul occasionally. It can certainly make sense in an alpine environment. But to me often the simulclimbing serves no purpose other than possibly to feel more bad ass. Several times I have asked people simuling if they were out for a big day or what they were going to climb next. The responses were they were just trying to get off the route (on beautiful days). Why? SUPER LINKING PITCHES Everyone links pitches but these days it almost seems like it is a competition as to who can be the most badass and link the most pitches. Almost every multipitch climb description will have others comments about what to link. Perhaps it's all just trying to be helpful but sometimes I get the impression it's a one up/bad ass competition. So if you use super skinny ropes, simulclimb a lot, and love to talk about all the pitches you linked do you do it because it made sense based on a risk/reward/enjoyment analysis or because it makes you feel more badass? I am curious.

You dont need to be an elite climber redpointing 5.14 to notice the benefits of a thin rope. Even the easiest 5.6 romp can highlight the differences between a 9.1 and a standard 10.2. In fact, it tends to be the easiest routes where the weight difference is the most noticeable as the pitches tend to be longer and the angle is low so the rope drags along the rock the entire time producing more drag.

You got to love fads. Do you guys remember when people decide to climb barefoot? Be one with the rock or something like that

I have no a preference when it comes to ropes but I do climb on fat ropes, they are cheaper. If i want the loose some weight I lose the shirt of my back. And I link pitches if it gets me to a better belay ledge

I agree somewhat on the skinny ropes point, mainly because of durability. If I'm paying for it, I want it to last more than 1 season. I also agree for the most part about linking pitches...this is especially a bad idea for people new to multipitch, as communication can be a PITA. It also sucks for the belayer.

Lou, the point of climbing is to feel like a badass. Whether that is taking the sharp end for your first ever lead, simul-climbing with a great friend, or climbing a 200+ ft pitch; rock climbing makes you feel like a badass. I think it's all apart of what makes the sport so awesome.

^^^
True, but I think one of the points Lou was trying to make is why not just enjoy the climbing vs. trying to appear badass for no obvious reason. If you're in the Black and it's the rope, the rack and the short on your back (i.e., get it done in a day or have a miserable forced bivy), then it makes sense. But if its a fine day at Tahquitz and you've got time aplenty, why not just relax and enjoy the day.

Very valid!! But another cool part of climbing is how relative it is. One persons "enjoying the day" pace is another person's sprint, just as "easy" to one person might be the limit for another.

Tyler Lomprey wrote:Very valid!! But another cool part of climbing is how relative it is. One persons "enjoying the day" pace is another person's sprint, just as "easy" to one person might be the limit for another.

Agreed.

It annoys me when someone tells someone else what he/she should enjoy and how he/she should enjoy it; how narcissistic. Any marginal risk or danger by showing off notwithstanding, if looking like a badass for no other reason than looking like a badass is fun to you, knock yourself out. Figuratively, of course. [insert smiley face thing]

Know the risks. Understand them. Respect others' safety. Go play, have a great day...

Skinny ropes-I think they are plenty safe. That being said I and most people I know have a quiver of ropes and save the skinny ropes for when it counts and use a beefier, more durable rope most days. I think this applies to more than just ropes. Look at all the lightweight gear being advertised in any magazine. The pros use it on a regular basis because they can get a new pack, jacket, etc for free. The average climber not so much.

Simulclimbing-on appropriate terrain this makes total sense. I'd much rather cruise an 8 pitch moderate with my wife in an hour or so while a baby sitter or family member watches our 2 year old for an afternoon instead of finding someone who we can drop our kid off with all day starting at 6am. Before kids this just meant we could get in multiple multipitch routes in a day or we could have a relaxing day in the mountains and not be concerned about getting off the route before the afternoon thunderstorms rolled in. As for enjoyment, it's not quite on the level of free soloing where you have no gear at all, but it's quite fun to be able to lead continously for 600' without having to stop for a belay. Hanging out by myself at a belay while my partner messes around on lead is usually not the most memorable part of my climbing day.

Linking pitches- having the experience to know when to link and when not to is key. On some routes it can save a lot of time and the extra belays aren't all that convenient. Other times I'd rather have good communication with my partner. I feel like I'm much less inclined to link pitches these days.

I been climbing on a serenity 8.9 for a about 1.5 years now. It has held up well but starting to fuss out and I think the fuss out process might be pretty quick. I think we have one lead fall on the rope.

I use the rope almost every weekend for trad climbing with longish (1/2 to 2 hours) off trail approaches regularly doing first ascents. Weight in the pack is a big concern. When one of my partners, who only does remote trad first ascents, saw it he immediately decided he needed one for himself.

Like others here, I have several ropes and will choose a different rope for particularly harsh routes, either lots of falls or sharp edges are expected or top roping. I am willing to go even lighter/thinner but will have to change belay devices.

I don't believe these ropes are suitable for everyone, especially sport climber working routes or top roping but they are suitable for many.

As for skinny ropes, technology marches on. My last few 9.2s and 9.4s are more durable and have better stats than the 10.5s and 11s I used in the early 90s. Fact is that skinny ropes are lighter, create less friction and handle much better than fat ropes. If you climb on anything fatter than a 9.8, you are climbing on a relic.

These are all useful for big climbing objectives. Linking pitches can be the difference between a half-day climb or a full-day climb. Simul-climbing can turn a big objective into something you can do in one day rather than have to overnight, or turn something that would take all day into an hour or two climb. Some days I enjoy hanging out on belay ledges, but for the most part I much prefer climbing to building anchors, belaying, and hanging out on ledges. Sometimes linking pitches and simulclimbing are a safe way to do more climbing and have a better time.

These aren't "trendy", they are often practical and this topic is silly IMO.

If someone enjoys getting a ton of mileage in in one day, or is getting in a ton of mileage to train for an alpine objective, or has decided that the weight savings and smooth belay of a thin rope are a worthy tradeoff for the lower longevity, more power to them.

Ultimately, we do this because it's fun, not because we're being altruistic, etc. As long as you don't step on people's toes, do what's makes it fun for you.

Brah, you know that 3 pitch climb can be linked up and done in one right?

How do you even climb with that fat old 10.2 bro?

I'd just simul that shit man.

Pull up those man-pris and send!

Ever consider that climbing a 200 foot pitch can be more fun than a 100 foot or 50 foot pitch? Simuling easy, solid terrain (and soloing), besides being useful in the alpine, allow more time to climb more pitches in a day, which is more fun. And carrying a lighter rope saves energy on approached and long pitches, leaving that energy for sending more harder pitches, which is more fun. Maybe the pros are onto something.

What about the training value of linking pitches for endurance, and learning how to simulclimb before you need to do it on a big objective. There is some basic stuff to work out.

In the Gunks, the pitch length was mainly dictated by the GT ledge, but it was also dictated by the length of he rope the party was climbing with. I think the Whitney Gilman Ridge on Cannon was originally done in 14 pitches, or something like that. Today it's done in 4 routinely

High Exposure used to be a 3 pitch climb when I first started climbing. That was the standard. Ropes got longer, people got more efficient at placing pro which reduces rope drag, and the result is that you can climb further and further without belaying. That's a good thing!

Fads come and go. The good ones change our perceptions just a little bit. Over time, we evolve. I'm sure people thought placing those silly little slung chockstones was just a fad too. Look what happened with that! Climbing leashless was a total fad at first. Seemed something only silly ice competition climbers did. Now you're a fool if you have a leash on your wrist.

And as the title suggests, BITD n00bs usually bought cheap all around shoes. These days half of them are wearing 170 dollar top of the line shoes, yet another trend that probably links best to American consumerism.

T Roper wrote:And as the title suggests, BITD n00bs usually bought cheap all around shoes. These days half of them are wearing 170 dollar top of the line shoes, yet another trend that probably links best to American consumerism.

Not to mention that you need several pairs of shoes because the shoes are designed for certain rock type of style of climbing. Miuras are old school and a lot more expensive (70 bucks more) then they used to be but still good. I found that over the years, cheap shoes got a lot better than and only a 20 bucks more expensive. I think cheap shoes are good enough to can climb 12s, but it is more important to look good in those Butoras.

Skinny ropes definitely have their place. My wife and I are not badass, we're old folks who climb for fun, but we're both light (120 and 150 lb) so we don't need a super burly rope, and at our age (or more precisely our knees' age) we like the lighter weight of the skinny rope on long approach hikes and multipitch routes. So that's one trend that is just fine for average Joes!

Hey guys
Thanks for all the well thought out responses.
My favorite was Tyler's "Lou, the point of climbing is to feel like a badass".
I think many of you who like to do what I discussed would be considered "elite" by some average joe climbers.
As noted - everything has it's place but beginners can get into trouble copying.

I have personally twice observed very scared seconds on simulclimbing parties who were clearly roped into it.
If you link several pitches with a really long rope with a beginner follower and the crux is right off the deck or above a ledge you put that follower at more risk.
Just last year I core shot a new static line in several places falling maybe 10 times at most self belaying. Had never happened before. Other friends have had ropes cut 1/2 way through on a swinging fall topoping. Another guy in my area died when a pebble got stuck in a grigri on toprope. So I am aware about rope cutting possibilities.
I also watched a guy die climbing (not my partner) and over the years have helped in several other rescues because I was on the scene so maybe that affects my perception and to me everything is risk/reward ratio.

Lou Hibbard wrote:I have personally twice observed very scared seconds on simulclimbing parties who were clearly roped into it.

Ooof!