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Sep 26, 2013
Jim Titt wrote:
Eh? Edelrid is part of the Vaude group.

I stand corrected. I should have said it was a rumor (heard from some Kailas sponsored climbers visiting the US). Google says Kailas became the distributor for Vaude group in China recently. I surmise Totem is simply distributed under the Kailas brand in China as well. That's far from being "owned" by Kaila (although suppose REI had been the sole US distributor of CCH Aliens before its demise, how independent would CCH have been?).
reboot
From Westminster, CO
Joined Jul 17, 2006
50 points
Jul 8, 2014
Finally got a new set of Totems. They look awesome. If only the weather didn't call for 106 temps this weekend in Washington! DrApnea
From Wenatchee, WA
Joined May 24, 2011
150 points
Dec 13, 2016
so Kailas didn't infringe on Totem's copyright but they have some kind of agreement? What about the other stuff Kailas labels and sells? Just wondering how legit their stuff is and whether it goes through the same rigorous quality control. climbnplay
Joined Jun 21, 2011
0 points
Dec 14, 2016
I ordered a set of Kailas branded Totems on sale at $65/ea. Shipping from China was only one week. Different logo and numbering system, but they appear to be perfectly good Totems.


Rock Climbing Photo: Kailas Totems vs. Totem Totems
Kailas Totems vs. Totem Totems
Adam Byrd
From Morgantown, WV
Joined Oct 22, 2013
155 points
Dec 14, 2016
Adam Byrd wrote:
I ordered a set of Kailas branded Totems on sale at $65/ea. Shipping from China was only one week. Different logo and numbering system, but they appear to be perfectly good Totems.


Let us know after you take some whippers on them, or have your partner post while they wait in the ER!
Nick Drake
From Newcastle, WA
Joined Jan 20, 2015
333 points
Dec 14, 2016
Nick Drake wrote:
Let us know after you take some whippers on them, or have your partner post while they wait in the ER!



Totem has confirmed these are Totem cams, manufactured by Totem, with the Kailas logo.

Since Totem does not and has not manufactured in Chian, there is zero chance a factory in China knows how to make a Totem look alike.
jason.cre
Joined Aug 6, 2014
0 points
Dec 14, 2016
I just ordered a regular and basic Totem from the Kailas site. Free shipping and prices are $53 for the Basic and $65 for the Regular. Kevin Mokracek
From Burbank
Joined Apr 5, 2012
45 points
Dec 15, 2016
Wow, this is a twist in the 'how can I get some Totems?' game!......

Who confirmed with Mikel at Totems that these are the real cams made in Spain?.......nothing will amaze me this year, lol

Erik
rockclimbyosemite.com
Erik Sloan
Joined Dec 16, 2013
0 points
Dec 15, 2016
Erik Sloan wrote:
Wow, this is a twist in the 'how can I get some Totems?' game!...... Who confirmed with Mikel at Totems that these are the real cams made in Spain?.......nothing will amaze me this year, lol Erik Rockclimbyosemite.com


Mikel did back a page or two.
mattm
From TX
Joined Jun 2, 2006
550 points
Dec 15, 2016
jason.cre wrote:
Totem has confirmed these are Totem cams, manufactured by Totem, with the Kailas logo. Since Totem does not and has not manufactured in Chian, there is zero chance a factory in China knows how to make a Totem look alike.


It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.
Nick Drake
From Newcastle, WA
Joined Jan 20, 2015
333 points
Dec 15, 2016
Nick Drake wrote:
It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.



If this is true, do you know of any cases of a knockoff cam hitting the market? I would be very interested in evidence that Chinese companies are reverse engineering and producing knockoff cams.

The only notices I have heard were of simple hardware, like carabiners, which were produced in the same region the company was already manufacturing its products (i.e. the chinese knockoff didnt reverse manufacture, they took the dies and molds directly from the original manufacturer)
jason.cre
Joined Aug 6, 2014
0 points
Dec 15, 2016
Nick Drake wrote:
It's pretty damn easy to reverse engineer a cam and the Chinese manufacturers are quite versed at doing so. That being said, I do see a post from 2013 saying totem manufactured for other companies. Things can change in 3 years.

If you check the Great Online Deals Thread, someone there checked with Totem a few weeks ago, and confirmed that the Kailas cams are just re-branded Totems, manufactured by Totem at their facilities in Spain.
Gavin W
Joined Feb 19, 2015
23 points
Dec 15, 2016
I just ordered some more basics well nuco's actually. We will see!! Jcastleberry
Joined Sep 24, 2010
25 points
Dec 15, 2016
These are NOT knock offs, just re labeled Totems. Totem themselves stated this in a few threads here and elsewhere. Kevin Mokracek
From Burbank
Joined Apr 5, 2012
45 points
Dec 15, 2016
Yeah, it's true they say made in Spain. Looks like they're about out of stock now.....crazy that you can't get these cams easily, folks even have difficulty buying from Totem's own website, and here you can get some that a company paid to have made and sent to China - for cheaper than you can get them anywhere else. Wowza Erik Sloan
Joined Dec 16, 2013
0 points
Dec 15, 2016
jason.cre wrote:
If this is true, do you know of any cases of a knockoff cam hitting the market? I would be very interested in evidence that Chinese companies are reverse engineering and producing knockoff cams. The only notices I have heard were of simple hardware, like carabiners, which were produced in the same region the company was already manufacturing its products (i.e. the chinese knockoff didnt reverse manufacture, they took the dies and molds directly from the original manufacturer)


I don't know of any Chinese manufacturer currently producing a knockoff cam. With knock offs of petzl ascenders out on the market in the past I don't see why you think a cam would present a problem for someone to copy. Cams are not remotely difficult to tear apart and copy.

In the totem/kailas case this discussion is pointless since the manufacturer confirmed they are just rebranded.
Nick Drake
From Newcastle, WA
Joined Jan 20, 2015
333 points
Dec 15, 2016
Gavin W wrote:
If you check the Great Online Deals Thread, someone there checked with Totem a few weeks ago, and confirmed that the Kailas cams are just re-branded Totems, manufactured by Totem at their facilities in Spain.


That was me, confirming it here too. Heard from both Kailas and Totem, all good.
ethnfrnk
Joined Mar 30, 2015
0 points
Dec 16, 2016
Yeah the Totems are complicated, so I think they would be harder and slower to knock off. To those that say it can't be done - for sure it can, the Korean and Chinese climbers in Yosemite have been showing me knock-off Aliens for years.....but I haven't bought any and tried them out.

Woot!
Erik Sloan
rockclimbyosemite.com
Erik Sloan
Joined Dec 16, 2013
0 points
Dec 17, 2016
On another totem-related subject, anyone taken a whip on a desperate two lobe placement? Logan Schiff
From Brooklyn, NY
Joined Jun 18, 2012
35 points
Dec 26, 2016
Does anyone know where I can purchase a black totem? Brian Seegers
Joined Jul 3, 2015
0 points
Dec 26, 2016
Brian Seegers wrote:
Does anyone know where I can purchase a black totem?


Dick's Climbing had some last I checked!
ethnfrnk
Joined Mar 30, 2015
0 points
Dec 26, 2016
Thanks! Looks like they're out now, but I appreciate the lead. Brian Seegers
Joined Jul 3, 2015
0 points


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