Route Guide    Partners    Forum    Photos    What's New    Journal        
Sign Up  |   Log In:Login with Facebook
REI Community
top rope anchor setup with webbing instead of static rope
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
Oct 12, 2016
This top rope setup seems to be the most often recommended setup:
Rock Climbing Photo: screen shot of top rope anchor setup from "Ro...
screen shot of top rope anchor setup from "Rock Climbing, 2nd edition". I think this qualifies as fair use.


However, I don't have a long stretch of static rope, and I would like to use a single long (50ft) strand of 1" tubular wedding instead. Can a similar setup be achieved with webbing?

Instead of the bowline on the left boulder/tree, I would probably use a water knot. I would replace the clove hitch on the right with an overhand on a bight, and I would use a BHK to get a redundant master point, rather than the two separate figure 8 knots shown. I would make sure to protect the webbing on the cliff edge since it is less burly than static rope.

Does that seem safe? Apart from safety, does this seem like a convenient anchor setup? Will the knots be a PITA to untie?
Noah Brenowitz
Joined Apr 2, 2016
5 points
Oct 12, 2016
I can't tell you how many times I did the exact set up that you described, except I wouldn't bother with the separate sling around the tree on the right just do both sides the same with the water knot. Make sure your tails are long enough on the water knots and that the trees/boulders are stable and strong enough and you'll be fine. Brady3
Joined Apr 18, 2014
16 points
Oct 13, 2016
You're going to be fine with what you suggest, Noah. The CH is only used on the tree to facilitate adjusting the length of the leg to better achieve a semi-equalized anchor. Some (most) will see the dangling end of that CH in the diagram as a problem, but I've posted before about why "closing the system" is not a concern there. Not that it causes any real harm to do so.

The two F8s (vs a BFK) as the masterpoint is fine as long as the included angle isn't too big. More importantly, it's the way to go if you're working with two shorter pieces of rope/webbing as opposed to one huge piece.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,678 points
Oct 13, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
Noah Brenowitz wrote:
I would replace the clove hitch on the right with an overhand on a bight


You can use a clove hitch with webbing to adjust and equalize that anchor. I think 20KN had tested a CH with webbing.

I don't think it's necessary, but if you're worried about cyclic loading and loosening, after making your adjustment close the system with an overhand loop.
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
409 points
Oct 13, 2016
thanks for the replies everyone!
okay. i haven't used a clove in webbing in this fashion, so I just wanted to check.

What is the best way to attach the webbing to the boulder/tree on the left of the picture? I have seen the tensionless hitch mentioned a bunch of times, but a rethread overhand seems pretty easy.
Noah Brenowitz
Joined Apr 2, 2016
5 points
Oct 13, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
With webbing, do three wraps and then tie your water knot. Now pull two of the wraps and put your lockers on those. Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,669 points
Oct 13, 2016
Stich. I'm not sure that method would work for me since I would like to use a single piece of webbing for the whole system. Noah Brenowitz
Joined Apr 2, 2016
5 points
Oct 13, 2016
Can someone explain what's going on with the double bowline in the image? Did they bring the tail back up through the loop? 303scott
Joined Mar 21, 2008
253 points
Oct 13, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Wisdom
Jesus what is this east coast BS? It would take half a day to build that. Why dont you just put some bolts up there?

Add this to the Devils lake top rope cluster f^%$ thread
Comanche
Joined Oct 3, 2013
14 points
Oct 13, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
303scott wrote:
Can someone explain what's going on with the double bowline in the image? Did they bring the tail back up through the loop?


It's this: chockstone.org/techtips/Bowlin...
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
409 points
Nov 28, 2016
Kinda old thread but not mentioned yet and SUPER important... tubular nylon webbing stretches... sometimes significantly depending on the length of the various "legs". This stretch can lead to significant abrasion, and in some cases failure, when the material is repeatedly stretched and released over the cliff edge.

Static rope is much more durable and safer for the type of setup pictured. If you find yourself having to set up anchors like this occasionally invest in 50' of static rope. Webbing may be cheaper but is not ideal for this application. Buy some static line by the foot based on how far back you think your anchors will be.
NEAlpineStart
From Conway, New Hampshire
Joined Nov 20, 2012
120 points
Nov 28, 2016
Yah...it seems like static is less of a hassle overall. Other issues aside, the 50' of tubular webbing just isn't long enough for most of the anchors I would want to build. Noah Brenowitz
Joined Apr 2, 2016
5 points
Nov 28, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Belaying 2nd (or was it 3rd? 4th?) on Turk's Head ...
Hmm...old thread but it seems we're reviving it, so...

I say cut the webbing in half. Two (or three) shorter pieces of webbing is much more useful than 1 long one. This approach works much better with static rope/cord IMO. As mentioned, the clove hitch is for adjusting equalization.

I've seen a lot of old school anchor builders do a simple setup with webbing that would work for this scenario: each strand is independently attached to the anchor biners via an overhand on a bight. Just tie the knot in each strand of webbing wherever you need it to achieve equalization. No masterpoint. While it's a little weird to have two pieces of webbing connected to the same biners, it's fine and shouldn't result in triaxle loading as long as the angles are mild enough. Simple, quick, and solid if your protection is. Alternatively, if you like having a masterpoint (I do), use the webbing to get your pieces where you want and equalize with a cordellette.
Ted Pinson
From Chicago, IL
Joined Jul 11, 2014
183 points
Nov 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Noah Brenowitz wrote:
Stich. I'm not sure that method would work for me since I would like to use a single piece of webbing for the whole system.


You use one long piece of webbing. Sorry if I was being unclear. It's called a Wrap-3-Pull-2 anchor. A 25 to 30 ft. single piece of webbing works nicely. Here's a picture:



In rescue literature you'll see it abbreviated W3P2. Now of course you have to choose a BFT(Big Fuckin' Tree) or a PBFT(Pretty Big Fuckin' Tree) to wrap it on. Otherwise, you're SOL.

Lately the trees I have been doing webbing anchors on have been so big, that I can only wrap it twice, so I just clip both wraps. But we are just using the anchor to rap down to place bolted anchors, so no shock loading. Also, if your massive tree has massive, healthy branches, you can wrap around the saddle between the trunk and branch to keep your anchor elevated. This makes the angle that the rope goes over the edge of the cliff less severe.
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,669 points
Nov 29, 2016
Stich wrote:
You use one long piece of webbing. Sorry if I was being unclear. It's called a Wrap-3-Pull-2 anchor. A 25 to 30 ft. single piece of webbing works nicely.


When not limited by rope length, an easier, faster, and more robust solution is to get rid of the webbing entirely and just put the static rope around the tree / rock / whatever, tied off with a bowline. The bowline is easily adjusted to equalize the anchor, less prone to slipping than a clove hitch, and eliminates two potential failure points in the system (the carabiner and webbing). When there is excess rope involved, wrap the tree and pull a bight of the tail to form the bowline (treating the bight as you would the end of the rope in a typical knot, with a long tail and stopper knot).
ubu
From Bethesda, MD
Joined Jan 1, 2009
1 points
Nov 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Webbing is typically chosen as it can be daisy chained into a small, light package.



But a nice piece of static rope is better for extending an anchor over a sharp edge as it is a lot tougher.
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,669 points
Nov 29, 2016
Stich wrote:
But a nice piece of static rope is better for extending an anchor over a sharp edge as it is a lot tougher.


I believe the exact opposite, the webbing conforms to the sharp rock and doesnt roll all over it. I've been using the same 100' piece for many years and have seen many partners static lines get partially cut/retired in that same time.

Of course living in the TR capitol of the NE , I see folks use static that has been threaded through webbing for a double whammy of safety!
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
1,054 points
Nov 29, 2016
T Roper wrote:
I believe the exact opposite, the webbing conforms to the sharp rock and doesnt roll all over it. I've been using the same 100' piece for many years and have seen many partners static lines get partially cut/retired in that same time. Of course living in the TR capitol of the NE , I see folks use static that has been threaded through webbing for a double whammy of safety!


Where is the TR capitol of the NE by chance?

And I'll have to say a properly set up extended TR setup will always be safer, more durable, and longer lasting than a webbing equivalent. It is industry standard in the guiding industry for good reason.
NEAlpineStart
From Conway, New Hampshire
Joined Nov 20, 2012
120 points
Nov 29, 2016
NEAlpineStart wrote:
Where is the TR capitol of the NE by chance? And I'll have to say a properly set up extended TR setup will always be safer, more durable, and longer lasting than a webbing equivalent. It is industry standard in the guiding industry for good reason.


If guides really wanted the most bomber TR anchor they would haul around 3/8" chain for TR anchors.

I do agree, a properly set up anchor is the best.
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
1,054 points
Nov 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
Thought this was already beaten to death by Joey from NEGuiding...

rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum...
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
409 points
Nov 29, 2016
wivanoff wrote:
Thought this was already beaten to death by Joey from NEGuiding... rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum...


wow, that site still exists! I wonder who pays for it?
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
1,054 points
Nov 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
T Roper wrote:
Of course living in the TR capitol of the NE , I see folks use static that has been threaded through webbing for a double whammy of safety!


OMFG!!!!!
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,669 points
Nov 29, 2016
I know you said you want to use webbing, but buying a 100' length of 11mm static line was one of the best investments I ever made. With it, I can make a solid, redundant anchor almost anywhere. If there's a long hike in, then I will use different options, of course. RMS
Joined Aug 20, 2014
92 points
Nov 29, 2016
Looking at that picture from OP, no one has an issue with a bowline for an unmonitored TR anchor setup? JohnReg
Joined Oct 8, 2015
15 points
Nov 30, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
Stich wrote:
OMFG!!!!!


TRpoer made it sound like the static line is inserted in the webbing over it's entire length for a "for a double whammy of safety!"

That's not what I've seen. Those that I have seen do this use a short length (or two) of webbing over the static line and position it where the static line runs over the edge. It's only to help protect the static line from edge abrasion.

I've never seen anyone thread the whole length of static line through an equal length of webbing to make one massive thick anchor. But, I don't know where TRoper climbs. So, maybe he knows people that do this.
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
409 points
Nov 30, 2016
JohnReg wrote:
Looking at that picture from OP, no one has an issue with a bowline for an unmonitored TR anchor setup?


Absolutely fine as shown.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,678 points


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>