Mountain Project Logo

Tips for climbing in group of 5

Original Post
stolo · · Lake Norman, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 214

My family is coming to visit this weekend and we want to do a multi-pitch route or two. Group will be 5 total: me, wife, brother, dad, cousin. My wife and I regularly climb together, but I always lead. Rest have general climbing, top rope and following experience - but I am only leader in the group.

I have picked an area that is remote and does not see much traffic and also has several easy fully bolted 4-5 pitch routes (read: we will not be holding anyone up). Obviously my main concern is safety and fun. Not so worried about moving quickly, they will love hanging out on the rock and enjoying the day together.

We will have two 70m single ropes and will be walking off. The routes are straight up slab/friction climbing and do not meander. Guide book says you can rap the route with 1 rope, I read this as, pitch should be no longer than 30-35m. No hanging belays.

Plan was to tie into middle of rope 1 w/ a bowline on a bite, lead on single strand. When at belay, bring up climber 2 & 3 on both ends of rope on standard top belay w/ atc guide. Climber 2 clean pitch (draws and maybe piece of gear). Have one of climbers carry up rope 2 from the rope mid point on haul loop. Once at belay, I presumably lead the next pitch with climber 2 belaying me while climber 3 brings up climbers 4 and 5 on top belay w/ atc guide. Repeat.

Only catch I can think of is to make sure to bring enough cord for 5 separate anchors, unless can coordinate gear exchange by pitch 3.

Anyone done this before or have some tips to make the day go smoother? Is this just a terribly bad idea and we should take turns and do 3 person climbs?

Thanks!

Michael McNutt · · Boise, Idaho · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5

That's going to be a huge cluster. How hard are the climbs? You might get your girlfriend to lead a rope team, while you lead another. No better time to learn to lead than now.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

1 Make sure the route has enough space for 3-4 people at the belay ledge.
2 Make sure climber 3 knows enough to be able to do something if shit hits the fan while belaying climbers 4 and 5.

stolo · · Lake Norman, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 214
Michael McNutt wrote:How hard are the climbs? You might get your girlfriend to lead a rope team, while you lead another. No better time to learn to lead than now.
5.5 - yep, maybe.

It's low angle granite, not exactly belay ledges, more of shallow spots with 2 bolts where you just stand.
mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

I agree with Michael McNutt, this could very quickly turn into a massive clusterfuck. I would set up topropes, or take turns and do 3 person climbs. Even 3 person climbs could turn into a cluster pretty quickly if you're the only person that can lead.

Ross Swanson · · Pinewood Springs · Joined Jul 2001 · Points: 2,522

Key things to watch out for, or considerations:

Someone dropping rocks on others, good to have helmets for everyone.

The least inexperienced getting lost in tie-in, or at the end of a pitch & going off belay but being safe while off the deck.

Confusion on your part trying to answer multiple questions at once, then someone getting discouraged and not asking for help.

Try to assign a buddy system so everyone works as a team and asks questions as a team, with no guessing.

Low angle 'easy' pitches can be inherently dangerous because in a fall there may be ledges.

Having a situation that only you can solve, but you're leading.

You trying to answer questions while your leading and you fall.

There are probably many others but it sounds like a lot of fun if you can make it work. It would be better if there is another climber that will be able to take over when your not able to maybe your wife?
--Ross

John Barritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,083

What's the route? Will it go in 3 long pitches instead of 4-5 short ones? JB

stolo · · Lake Norman, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 214
John Barritt wrote:What's the route? Will it go in 3 long pitches instead of 4-5 short ones? JB
Yes I think so! Have not climbed this specific route but been in the area. Would make for faster climbing and could take turns.

Dave's Delight at Stone Depot. Guide book has others not listed on MP too.

mountainproject.com/v/daves…

Also some easy/fun stuff on South Side of Cedar rock.
John Barritt · · The 405 · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 1,083

With two more ropes you could get everyone up in one haul with only two at a time on the belays. This would assume everyone is competent at belaying followers. If not you would be best to do it with groups of three. JB

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Just climb some single-pitch stuff. Easier and safer with newer climbers.

Gavin Towey · · Bend, OR · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

You said safety is your biggest goal and I would agree with that.

There's nothing about taking 5 people up a route with only 1 leader and 2 ropes that seems like it's focusing on safety. I would under no circumstances have novice climbers untying from the climbing rope midway through a multi-pitch route. With only two ropes you will have to. As others have said, find some single pitch stuff instead and set up top-ropes.

stolo · · Lake Norman, NC · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 214
gtowey wrote:would under no circumstances have novice climbers untying from the climbing rope midway through a multi-pitch route. With only two ropes you will have to. As others have said, find some single pitch stuff instead and set up top-ropes.
No one would have to untie since pitches are less than 30m each and using 70m ropes. Yea, was just trying to show them a fun time and with some cool exposure since don't get to climb together often. But guess not worth trying to force it to happen. Top rope will have to do and I/wife and one other can do some multi pitch if someone is really interested in getting high up.

Can teach everyone what they need to know and make it happen on our next outing.

Thanks for the input everyone.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Don't do it. Its really not that fun to be tied together on the side of a cliff waiting for your turn all day. Split up into two partys and get on different climbs or just go cragging. Especially do NOT try this if you have to ask how to do it. Being responsible for even one beginner climber on a multi pitch is a full time job......

SRB25 · · Woodside, ca · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 5

Not having climbed the route and just going for it doesn't seem like good planning. This type of scenario seems at best something to do on a route you know well and have climbed a ton of times. I would go climb it a couple times first. Maybe take a third also.

Mike Womack · · Orcutt, CA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 2,015

I've led climbs in big groups and this is how I do it: Leader climbs up with a tag line. Then, the leader belays everyone up at the same time and this is how: each rope has one person on the end and another tied in midway (or wherever) through a figure 8 bit on a 3' leash (overhand knot). I use an BD ATC guide and use the guide belay method and it's really easy to belay up two ropes at the same time this way. It's also a better experience for everyone to be on the ledge at the same time. Obviously simulclimbing methods apply of climbers at a good distance from eachother and rope control by unclipping from points and then reclipping yadda yadda.

Michael Goodhue · · Colorado · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 35

"Guide book says you can rap the route with 1 rope, I read this as, pitch should be no longer than 30-35m."

That is a bad assumption, especially with the lack of experience of your group and lack of equipment. Pitches wander, and rap routes can be different than the route of ascent.

Ryan Marsters · · Golden, CO · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 1,431

Oh fun. I've led groups as large as 12 up obscure multi pitch climbs with nobody else around. About 3 ropes and 1 leader.

Generally, first person leads the pitch and brings up 2 or 3 people - one or two butterflied into the middle of the rope and one at the end trailing another rope. Space the people logically such that if somebody falls at a crux, it won't yank the other person off a less than ideal spot.

One of the followers then belays the lead climber on the next pitch while the other follower belays a chain of people butterflied into the next rope up to the first pitch anchor. Those guys tether in and take out the butterfly while belayer stays on. Again, weaker climbers first and spaced logically not to pull anybody off cruxes.

This is just stupid with loose rock, hanging belays, small belay stations, etc. Space experienced climbers out to watch over less experienced climbers and check safety.

If the descent requires raps, liberal use of stone knots off bomber anchors help.

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651

Belays on slab routes with multiple partners are likely to suck. You'll end up with everyone jammed shoulder to shoulder if they are semi hanging.

Consider using quads for anchors so different climbers can clip into 2 strands. This will let them stand offset and not pull each other around. It's also very easy for them to see where to clip in.

A gigi is nicer for belaying two climbers, the rib in the middle can let one climber be locked off and allow the other to still climb while you pull in slack.

Clove is a poor choice for middle of the rope climber. ALpine butterfly. Use an autolocker or back up a screw gate with a regular biner opposite and opposed (I have seen screw gates open on glacier crossings, it happens).

Like everyone else said, you're more likely to have a much better time for all involved if you pick out single pitch climbs and TR.

nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 525

Eh, multi with a big group can be pretty fun. It is definitely memorable to be hanging out together way up on the wall vs just top roping. You don't necessarily need to let people talk you out of it.

You could sacrifice a bit of speed and efficiency for extra safety by personally managing all the belays instead of delegating. For ex:

You tie into 2 ropes and lead up 30m. 2 followers tied in at halfway, other 2 at the ends. You belay all 4 up to you before leading off. That way you're in control of all belays. Assumes you can all fit on the ledge. Don't expect a noob to be able to handle 2 rope guide-mode and stacking the ropes neatly.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
mstolorena wrote:My family is coming to visit this weekend and we want to do a multi-pitch route or two. Group will be 5 total: me, wife, brother, dad, cousin. My wife and I regularly climb together, but I always lead. Rest have general climbing, top rope and following experience - but I am only leader in the group. I have picked an area that is remote and does not see much traffic and also has several easy fully bolted 4-5 pitch routes (read: we will not be holding anyone up). Obviously my main concern is safety and fun. Not so worried about moving quickly, they will love hanging out on the rock and enjoying the day together. We will have two 70m single ropes and will be walking off. The routes are straight up slab/friction climbing and do not meander. Guide book says you can rap the route with 1 rope, I read this as, pitch should be no longer than 30-35m. No hanging belays. Plan was to tie into middle of rope 1 w/ a bowline on a bite, lead on single strand. When at belay, bring up climber 2 & 3 on both ends of rope on standard top belay w/ atc guide. Climber 2 clean pitch (draws and maybe piece of gear). Have one of climbers carry up rope 2 from the rope mid point on haul loop. Once at belay, I presumably lead the next pitch with climber 2 belaying me while climber 3 brings up climbers 4 and 5 on top belay w/ atc guide. Repeat. Only catch I can think of is to make sure to bring enough cord for 5 separate anchors, unless can coordinate gear exchange by pitch 3. Anyone done this before or have some tips to make the day go smoother? Is this just a terribly bad idea and we should take turns and do 3 person climbs? Thanks!
climbing friend,

do not do it. split into the smaller group for multiple outings, and be always flex your muscles to show your considerable guns and impress anyone who would be looking on.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

ther Only way i would survive something like that would be with a shit ton of booze and weed. And I don't drink or smoke ;)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "Tips for climbing in group of 5"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.