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Thorazine Dream 

YDS: 5.11d French: 7a Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII ZA: 25 British: E5 6a

Type:  Sport, TR, 1 pitch, 55'
Original:  YDS: 5.11d French: 7a Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII ZA: 25 British: E5 6a [details]
FA: Tom MacFarlane, Brian Riepe, 8/89
Season: year round
Page Views: 2,814
Submitted By: Jason Halladay on Apr 3, 2007

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (24)
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Wide open vistas and finishing up on Thorazine. No...


Step up to the small roof and clip the first bolt. Pull the roof with a tenuous mantle-type move to really get going. Climb the thin, slabby face past a couple more bolts to a nice no-hands rest ledge. Then gun it through the steep, technical face climbing, using a nice mono pocket along the way through the short, pronounced crux past three more bolts to the anchors. Definitely a sequence to it.


This is the right-most route on the main wall. Shown as route number 29 on the Overlook route topo photo.


Used to be just two bolts then a small gear placement in a horizontal crack before the steep, bolted face with three more bolts to a bolted anchor. However, sometime in the past few years (early 2000s?) a third bolt near the horizontal crack was placed by an unknown driller.

Photos of Thorazine Dream Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Breaking through the crux on fine January day. (Th...
Breaking through the crux on fine January day. (Th...
Rock Climbing Photo: Luke setting up to clip the last bolt.
Luke setting up to clip the last bolt.
Rock Climbing Photo: Allison pulling hard on the mono through the crux....
Allison pulling hard on the mono through the crux....
Rock Climbing Photo: Finishing the crux of "Thorazine Dream".
Finishing the crux of "Thorazine Dream".
Rock Climbing Photo: George Perkins near the crux on Thorazine Dream.
George Perkins near the crux on Thorazine Dream.
Rock Climbing Photo: Rob Rhine on Thorazine Dream during a Meltdown com...
Rob Rhine on Thorazine Dream during a Meltdown com...

Comments on Thorazine Dream Add Comment
Show which comments
By caughtinside
From: Oakland CA
Apr 4, 2007

rad sequential movement that involves a killer mono!
By Shirtless Mike
From: Denver, CO
Apr 4, 2007

Don't really need any trad gear for this one, the moves between the first and second bolt are pretty easy.
By Roger Rumsey
Feb 1, 2008

Just curious if whoever retrobolted this climb bothered to ask the first ascentionist for permission? Funny, it was a safe lead before retrobolting since the horizontal seam took gear just fine! Next time I see Brian I'll inquiry as to any solicitation for permission. If not, that bolt ought to come out!
By Jason Halladay
From: Los Alamos, NM
Jan 31, 2009

Thanks to a hardware donation by the ARI, the anchor on this route has been replaced with some quality Fixe hardware, January 2009.
By J. Albers
From: Colorado
Aug 7, 2009
rating: 5.11d 7a 24 VIII 25 E5 6a

The bolt above the crack has been there for a long time (8 years at a minimum). Roger, this is a sport climb and I really don't see any good reason why that bolt should come out. Can you put a yellow TCU in the horizontal slot? Sure, but the quality of Thorazine as a route comes from the beautiful line and the face that it goes up and having to bring along a cam to plug a runout between bolts seems pointless and in my opinion would detract from the route. I would vote for the bolt to stay.
By Daniel Trugman
From: La Jolla, CA
Oct 21, 2009
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

While I agree with you J. Albers that Thorazine is a better route with the bolt in place, I think Roger brings up a valid point about contacting the FAs before the modifying their routes. I think it is disrespectful to retrobolt a route that has a recorded FA party (Tom and Brian) without first soliciting their permission. Please respect the vision of the FAs by not tampering with their hard work behind their backs.

To be clear - this is not a personally directed toward J. Albers. I'm sure you had nothing to do with it. I think this should be obvious but so much of what is said on the internet can be easily misconstrued, so I feel compelled to include this disclaimer.
By Daniel Trugman
From: La Jolla, CA
Oct 23, 2009
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Awesome. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. To clarify my previous post, I do not condone chopping bolts. I think it is equally destructive (as far as the rock is concerned) to remove a bolt as it is to place one. I was merely pointing out that Roger had a valid point in saying that the FA should have been contacted prior to the retrobolt.
By George Perkins
From: The Dungeon, NM
Mar 31, 2017
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

At risk of opining on bolt ethics, here are the rumors I've heard regarding the 3rd bolt on Thorazine Dream.
-Prior to the 3rd bolt being put in, the climb was often led without bringing any trad gear (perhaps by mistake, out of laziness, lack of gear, or ego), instead running out that section of the climb. That section is easy up to the no-hands rest at the horizontal crack, but there are a couple of thin 5.10/10+ moves just before clipping the next bolt where falling would have been really bad. So, although it was adequately protectable with the gear, it was often climbed in an "unsafe" style.
-To resolve this and bring the climb to modern sport climbing standards, the 3rd bolt was understandably placed by one of the strongest and more active rock climbers in LA/White Rock in the mid-late 90s, prior to his accident. (He also bolted many of the sport climbs at White Rock.) At the time, at least some other locals were aware of it, and were generally supportive or at least tolerant of it; though the FAists were not included in the discussion (not sure why, perhaps for totally valid reasons) and may not have been exactly jazzed about not being asked. In addition to being a great climb, Thorazine Dream was the 1st sport climb at the overlook, so putting it up was somewhat of a personal statement, especially considering the anti-bolt ethical precedent in WR at the time. They were obviously not so upset as to remove it.
-this all might not be fully true, just my impression from talking to older climbing partners in the area, including Roger (above post)
-Now, years later, I think most active local climbers appreciate both the climb and the 3rd bolt.

A Matt Samet article in Climbing mentions climbing this route in his youth as being notable.

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