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Thinking of converting my mastercams/c4s to something newer, lighter. Thoughts?
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Mar 3, 2016
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I have mastercams 0-2 and c4s doubled from 0.5-3. I'm eyeing some of these new cams that have been coming out. Any thoughts? Rich zz
From california
Joined Oct 2, 2012
183 points
Mar 3, 2016
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IMO they better, but not enough to warrant buying new cams you don't need. I would look for a #3 MC. you should be able find 'em pretty cheap since a lot of places are trying to make room for the new mastercams. eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
427 points
Mar 3, 2016
I would hesitate before replacing a double rack of C4's with the BD Ultralites (I'm assuming that's what you're thinking by "something newer, lighter"). The Ultralites are designed as a complement to C4's not necessarily a direct replacement. Yes they're lighter, and until I see otherwise, I'm going to stick by the principle of everything else in that lighter almost always means less durable. So if you're looking for an alpine rack, I'd consider the Ultralites, but for an every-day rack, I'd probably stick with the C4's Matt.Zia
From Leadville, CO
Joined Mar 13, 2012
181 points
Mar 3, 2016
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Matt.Zia wrote:
I would hesitate before replacing a double rack of C4's with the BD Ultralites (I'm assuming that's what you're thinking by "something newer, lighter"). The Ultralites are designed as a complement to C4's not necessarily a direct replacement. Yes they're lighter, and until I see otherwise, I'm going to stick by the principle of everything else in that lighter almost always means less durable. So if you're looking for an alpine rack, I'd consider the Ultralites, but for an every-day rack, I'd probably stick with the C4's


I agree. If you have a double rack of C4's, perhaps replace one set with the BD Ultralights and keep one set of C4's.
Chase D
Joined Apr 27, 2015
214 points
Mar 3, 2016
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Keep in mind the Metolius Ultralight Master Cam doesn't cover the same range as the C4's. You would need 1-2 extra cams of the Ultralights to cover the range of C4's so it kinda defeats the purpose. Jfriday1
From Lakewood, CO
Joined Jun 25, 2012
82 points
Mar 3, 2016
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#whitepeopleproblems Burcheydawwwwwwg
Joined Jan 9, 2012
1,273 points
Mar 3, 2016
Jfriday1 wrote:
Keep in mind the Metolius Ultralight Master Cam doesn't cover the same range as the C4's. You would need 1-2 extra cams of the Ultralights to cover the range of C4's so it kinda defeats the purpose.


to be totally fair though you would need to add an extra racking biner, or double rack a cam on biner for a proper comparison

Rock Climbing Photo: ul camalots vs ul mastercams vs ul TCUs
ul camalots vs ul mastercams vs ul TCUs


the bottom line is that the metolius UL mastercams are as light as the UL camalots even with the extra cam in the matching sizes ...

and the metal may last longer than 10 years

Adam Burch wrote:
#whitepeopleproblems


AZN folks problems ... how to convince your white partner to bring their tastay pets to da crag

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
3,068 points
Mar 3, 2016
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Adam Burch wrote:
#whitepeopleproblems


i'm asian
Rich zz
From california
Joined Oct 2, 2012
183 points
Mar 3, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: profile
Chase D wrote:
I agree. If you have a double rack of C4's, perhaps replace one set with the BD Ultralights and keep one set of C4's.


I like this idea.

Is anyone leaning towards the new friends or ultralight mastercam?
Rich zz
From california
Joined Oct 2, 2012
183 points
Mar 3, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: I'M THE F***ING KING OF INTERNET CLIMBING BRAJ
Rich zz wrote:
i'm asian


Has nothing to do with you
Burcheydawwwwwwg
Joined Jan 9, 2012
1,273 points
Mar 3, 2016
I just ordered sizes 5, 6, and 7 of the new mastercams instead of doubling on .75-2 C4. I'll post up pictures and impressions when I have them. Phil Tatti
From Saratoga Springs
Joined Apr 11, 2011
6 points
Mar 3, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Hawksbill
bearbreeder wrote:
the bottom line is that the metolius UL mastercams are as light as the UL camalots even with the extra cam in the matching sizes


This is true only if you think a number 8 mastercam is equivalent to a #3 BD. Or for that matter a #7 mc is the same as a #2 BD. They aren't. The #3 BD goes 1.64cm bigger than a #8 MC. That's a big difference, and it's very unfair to the BDs. The #8 MC is .66cm bigger than a #2 BD, and it's still not fair, but it's a more fair comparison. Throwing the #3 BD in there is bullcrap.

I'm pretty sure, though I'm too lazy to look it up, that the old Mastercams are significantly lighter than the C4s as well. But I never went out and replaced my BDs with all MCs. Because MCs suck in sizes bigger than about the orange #3 in my opinion.
Brian Abram
From Celo, NC
Joined Oct 17, 2007
418 points
Mar 3, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me on the CCK
If you're doing long single/multi day trips where you're getting absolutely worked by the end of the day then looking into UL cams (and UL everything) might be a good decision.

If you're hauling more than a double rack up 5.8's then you can probably find plenty of other ways to drop weight before you can justify spending the big $$$.

I would love to have some of the new BD UL's but my rack (which is a lot like yours) is wayy more than sufficient for everything I want to climb.

On the other hand if you're rich af then you should definitely switch to all UL cams and make all the other traddies at the crag with their ratty old cams jealous of your glimmering scratch-free lobes.
Sam Fox
From Burlington, VT
Joined Sep 4, 2013
275 points
Mar 3, 2016
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I take pride in the scratches, and occasionally prioritize my less scratched cams in an effort to wear on them a bit Matt Carroll
Joined Dec 9, 2013
42 points
Mar 3, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me on the CCK
Matt Carroll wrote:
I take pride in the scratches, and occasionally prioritize my less scratched cams in an effort to wear on them a bit


If you sandpaper the lobes it will look like you really know what you're doing.
Sam Fox
From Burlington, VT
Joined Sep 4, 2013
275 points
Mar 4, 2016
Brian Abram wrote:
This is true only if you think a number 8 mastercam is equivalent to a #3 BD. Or for that matter a #7 mc is the same as a #2 BD. They aren't. The #3 BD goes 1.64cm bigger than a #8 MC. That's a big difference, and it's very unfair to the BDs. The #8 MC is .66cm bigger than a #2 BD, and it's still not fair, but it's a more fair comparison. Throwing the #3 BD in there is bullcrap. I'm pretty sure, though I'm too lazy to look it up, that the old Mastercams are significantly lighter than the C4s as well. But I never went out and replaced my BDs with all MCs. Because MCs suck in sizes bigger than about the orange #3 in my opinion.


the large purple metolius is the closest equivalent in size to the big blue camalot in REAL life usage

the same way as the light blue metolius is the closest to the gold camalot

of course youll never exactly match em up as the ranges dont match up exactly

but anyone who uses both will tell you those are the closest equivalent sizes

perhaps you dont understand how metolius publishes there ranges ....

metoliusclimbing.com/cam-range...

"unfair to BD"??? ... guess we found the BD employee/sponsored climber !!!

as to the new mastercams sucking ... have you used them yet?

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
3,068 points
Mar 4, 2016
It's only a matter of time before discussions like this degenerate into, "What's your life worth?" "You don't want to be sketching on a run out and look down at that old C4 Camalot and realize that you'd feel better if it were the new, state-of-the-art model."

B'sides, somebody has to buy tons of these $100+ cams to help offset the development costs that BD sunk into them.

Folks like me will be happy to snatch up your "obsolete" C4s for pennies on the dollar.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,648 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: profile
Gunkiemike wrote:
It's only a matter of time before discussions like this degenerate into, "What's your life worth?" "You don't want to be sketching on a run out and look down at that old C4 Camalot and realize that you'd feel better if it were the new, state-of-the-art model." B'sides, somebody has to buy tons of these $100+ cams to help offset the development costs that BD sunk into them. Folks like me will be happy to snatch up your "obsolete" C4s for pennies on the dollar.



dude where are these pennies on the dollar c4s??? hook it up.
Rich zz
From california
Joined Oct 2, 2012
183 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rich zz wrote:
dude where are these pennies on the dollar c4s??? hook it up.


The key is to find someone who believes their C4s are obsolete.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,648 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: profile
Gunkiemike wrote:
The key is to find someone who believes their C4s are obsolete.



HEY EVERYONE c4s are being recalled. I'll take them off your hands.
Rich zz
From california
Joined Oct 2, 2012
183 points


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