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The Sequence: Lead (solo), Rap, Jug, Clean...or?
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Mar 16, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: it's me
Good Evening All,

I have a question or two, about solo aid climbing, that I thought I'd post and gather some answers/ideas. I'm getting a bit confused about the sequence of events here. Any help is appreciated.

My basic understanding is as follows...will indicate where I'm confused.

Step 1: build anchor inclusive of pig (using many of PTPP's ideas here)
Step 2. Solo aid the pitch (trailing haul/rap line)
Step 3: build new anchor atop pitch
Step 4: rap down the haul/rap line to first anchor - Point of Confusion
Step 5: Prepare the pig for hauling - Point of Confusion
Step 6: Jug / Clean the lead line (trailing haul/rap line) - Point of Confusion
Step 7: Haul the pig
Step 8: Rap again to remove anchor? - Point of Confusion

What am I missing here peeps?

Thanks!
Jeff Harmon
Joined Mar 15, 2016
125 points
Mar 16, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: First Belay Moonlight
1. Build Anchor Lead.
2. Rap haul line tied to anchor with a bit of slack and hanging off a full strength presik. Bit of slack is to set up the hauler after bags have been released and haul line is weighted.
3. At lower anchor release bags onto haul line with an upside down mini trax attaching the bags to far end haul when they get stuck.. Because they will!!!
4. Jug and clean
5. Haul bags
6 repeat...
walmongr
From Gilbert AZ
Joined Aug 8, 2015
86 points
Mar 17, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo:
You only rap the haul line once. After leading the pitch, set up your anchor and then rap down. Release the bag at the lower anchor, (there are a few ways of doing this). Then dissemble the lower anchor and begin cleaning the pitch. Also PPTP advice is awesome, but can sometimes be very complicated. Chase Bowman
From Baton Rouge
Joined Jan 27, 2014
476 points
Mar 17, 2016
Look up Mark Hudon's setups (hudonpanos.com). He has really taken the nuggets from the Canadian Assassin and simplified and lightened them for the better.

Pete likes to take a spare kitchen sink, and it goes downhill from there. Mark is more reasonable, though still packs assuming he will have porters to help at the end, so YMMV.
Moof
From Portland, OR
Joined Dec 11, 2007
25 points
Mar 17, 2016
If you're are efficient, you don't need to haul. Simply bring a small pack with water and food. Only carry it while you jug. The time and energy you save from not hauling allows you to go even lighter on food and water. JeffL
From Salt Lake City
Joined Jun 14, 2012
85 points
Mar 19, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Birds and Beards
JeffL wrote:
If you're are efficient, you don't need to haul. Simply bring a small pack with water and food. Only carry it while you jug. The time and energy you save from not hauling allows you to go even lighter on food and water.


Though true to a point (depending upon how much aid vs free and length of route), someone who is having these confusions about the systems for aid hauling is not going to be at that level of efficiency. Don't try soloing long routes without the food water and gear that is in the pig. S much as we all want to be awesome and fast, don't forget that no matter how much you train and research, you'll find plenty of confusion and unexpected situations while soloing that you'll usually need more food and water to deal with the extra day or three you hadn't planned for. Get some hauled routes under your belt before trying to be a speed monkey
kevin deweese
From Oakland, Ca
Joined Jan 14, 2007
304 points
Mar 19, 2016
JeffO,
Try this
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Prepare pig for hauling, remove it from anchor
8. Remove lead line from lower anchor
6.
7.

No second rappel needed. Also 2. in your system, look up Mark Hudon's "continuous loop system", it's way less of a cluster than climbing with a haul line hanging off your back.

I agree with Kevin, forget jugging with a pack of food & water -where was the ledge in that system? - unless you are doing an aid route that can be done in a day. Multi day routes pretty much demand more water than you want on your back.

From what I can see, you are not actually confused at your "Points of Confusion", you're basically right on. The only thing you're really missing is the sub sequence that happens around 5. & 8.
caribouman1052
Joined Nov 3, 2012
9 points
Administrator
Mar 19, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Artist Tears P3
Pick up a copy of Andy Kirkpatrick's book Me, Myself and I. John McNamee
From Littleton, CO
Joined Jul 29, 2002
1,929 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: it's me
Hi All,

Thanks for the responses.

I’m going to head out to a sport-climbing quarry (bolted w/ nice double bolts & chains at the top of each route, mostly single pitch…about 100 feet or so) for some solo aid practice. Sorry for the long post, but this helps me get my mind right and I figured I’d share in case anyone was really bored and wanted to throw out a critique or tip.


Gear Plan

Harness – metolius Waldo w/ BD fifi, metolius personal anchor system w/ locker, and 2 x metolius easy daisies (yellow and blue). Will be using an unmodified gri gri w/ back-up knots.

Aiders – 2 x metolius ladders (yellow & blue) attached to each same-color daisy respectively.

Rope – 70m sterling marathon pro dry and 60m sterling static (note: am considering a separate tag line 7 or 8 mm instead of continuous loop for solo tag rack…not sure on that yet…any thoughts on that?)

Rack – full trad rack including 3 x anchor systems, ascenders, hauling ratchet setup, etc. on a BD zodiac sling.

Practice Pig – metolius quarter dome. BD rope bucket.


Plan of Attack

1. Setup anchor just off the deck. Multidirectional bombproof. Attach pig & rope bucket for lead line.
2. Setup solo tag rack continuous loop system (or separate tag line) and leave solo tag rack on fifi on lower anchor (next to pig and with rope bucket for haul line attached to solo tag.
3. Aid lead (using bolts and other pro as I can find and using prusik method off each other bolt to practice)
4. Halfway (at a bolt), haul up solo tag rack (for practice) and fifi off bolt. Lunch will be w/ solo tag, so I’ll eat lunch there, hanging off the bolt.
5. Continue leading to top of route (2 bolt system).
6. Set up bombproof anchor at top.
7. Set up haul ratchet (z rig).
8. Haul up tag rack.
9. Haul up haul line and anchor.
10. Rappel haul line.
11. Change over to main line and un anchor that.
12. Release the pig (micro traxion attached just above swivel for ease of getting it off the anchor)
13. Jug & clean main line.
14. Haul Pig.
15. Anchor Pig at top.
16. Take a breath.
17. Lower Pig to ground. Lower tag rack to ground.
18. Thread haul line through chains and rappel.
19. Beer.
Jeff Harmon
Joined Mar 15, 2016
125 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Russ
Skip all that... just get a pad and pen, or if you are more visual, one GI Joe and some string and push pins. Sort your shit out on a sheet of drywall with your miniature bold ass leader. Have him do a 3 pitch climb up the drywall (or cardboard) while you do #19 to excess. Then load up the car and head to Yosemite. Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,664 points
Mar 20, 2016
JeffO,
When I was learning how to do all this, I broke the whole mess down into pieces that I could learn separately, and then began to link them all together. With no walls nearby, and work competing for my time, it was the only way I could come up with to learn the whole mess. I actually made a training program of bite size chunks.

Odd as it is, Russ' suggestion makes sense in a "protoyping a process" kind of way. All due respect to Russ, I wouldn't jump on a wall in the Valley with no more experience than the DIY GI Joe instructional method. For me, I have to get out there in the rain and darkness and slog through the whole thing in person. Had I thought of it, I would have done the "Walling-GIJoe prototype method"
before I went out to the crag to practice. I did do the paper method first, and yeah it helps. I think moving from 2D to 3D before trying it in person is a damn good idea.

If you really have a bolt ladder available, why haul the whole trad rack on the first go? Why complicate the whole thing?
caribouman1052
Joined Nov 3, 2012
9 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: it's me
Hi Makes sense of course. I have begun mapping it out on paper, but am going to throw it on the whiteboard at work tomorrow...easier to erase. I'll post a photo of the white board.

I was also thinking about rigging a static line and rope soloing that while I practice all this too. We'll see about that.

Cheerio

J

PS...beer in hand!
Jeff Harmon
Joined Mar 15, 2016
125 points
Mar 20, 2016
Would you like a copy of the "big wall training program" I came up with? It's aimed at learning the systems (hanging stove, setting up the ledge, hauling) involved in walls, not the physical fitness part. caribouman1052
Joined Nov 3, 2012
9 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Russ
All due respect to Russ, I wouldn't jump on a wall in the Valley with no more experience than the DIY GI Joe instructional method. For me, I have to get out there in the rain and darkness and slog through the whole thing in person. Had I thought of it, I would have done the "Walling-GIJoe prototype method"
before I went out to the crag to practice. I did do the paper method first, and yeah it helps. I think moving from 2D to 3D before trying it in person is a damn good idea.


Got me... I'm not really suggesting the GI Joe to Mescalito thing either. But, seriously, figuring out stuff like how many ropes will I need for a 3 man system, or should I haul on rap etc can be easily grasped with the 3D method. Stuff will make sense real fast.

HIt up your granny for a few colors of yarn and no kidding, set it up just like you think you might on a wall. Real good for stuff like blue rope will be the next lead line and is set up on the left half of the anchor... red line is haul line and is set up in the middle of the anchor... yellow line is on the right side of the anchor and is the line the cleaner will be on. Zip line is coiled. So... this one needs to release clean, this one is under all the others, and this one will double as the space hauler and will be the last to leave the station. It can get real confusing, and as we know, fast transitions at the station make for fast and trouble-free walls.
Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,664 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Just below Thunderbolt Peak
I suggest looking for advice from someone besides PTPP unless you want to take so long you end up becoming his other nickname, pitch-a-day-Pete. Colin Simon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jan 30, 2009
427 points
Mar 20, 2016
Colin Simon wrote:
I suggest looking for advice from someone besides PTPP unless you want to take so long you end up becoming his other nickname, pitch-a-day-Pete.

His early partners called him the Canadian Assassin. He called himself PTPP.

The story I got from one of his early partners was that by about 2/3 up the route he had endeared himself so much than when my friend saw Pete's helmet and headlamp go tumbling by, he kinda wished Pete was still in it...
Moof
From Portland, OR
Joined Dec 11, 2007
25 points
Mar 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Moss
I like this guys idea (from another site):

This hole practice aid thing doesn't make sense to me. Here's how I learned to aid climb: I walked all of my sh#t to the base of the leaning tower. I slept at the f*#kin base. I woke up in the morning and started climbing. I had two bolt ladder pitches to "practice". I used a clove hitch the whole time. I didn't know about lowering bags or myself, so I grunted a lot getting my bags off the anchor and watching them fly into space. I also sh#t my pants a lot jumping to clean a quick draw then flying out into space. I got to Ahwahnee at about 2 am and fell asleep without hauling face down in the gravel. The nest day I hauled and decided to get really, really drunk and high. I ended up naked dancing to blue grass when some jack asses decided to ruin my party and join me on the ledge. They were talking about bailing and I was tired. I told them I would lead everything if they belayed me. They belayed me to the top so I got some more practice.

CanopyGorilla
Jason Todd
From Cody, WY
Joined Apr 21, 2012
712 points
Mar 20, 2016
Moof wrote:
His early partners called him the Canadian Assassin. He called himself PTPP. The story I got from one of his early partners was that by about 2/3 up the route he had endeared himself so much than when my friend saw Pete's helmet and headlamp go tumbling by, he kinda wished Pete was still in it...


I gave him the nickname pitch-a-day Pete.
I've also said ivy climbs faster than he does.
I was on the Muir with him when his helmet and headlamp went by, and yes those comments were exchanged between the other members of the party.

What Pete does, works for Pete.
There are some useful bits and tricks in all the complexity, but you have to understand, he is vertical camping, not wall climbing in a traditional sense.

The most useful thing he showed me was the muenter mule bag docking knot, but he stole it from chongo. Well, stole might not be the right word, as the two of them worked on that book for a few years.
Pretty much everything else is a recipe for a Gordian Knot or an invitation to meet Werner.

In reading your plan, first thing I'd say is get a third aider and use the floating aider technique.
Just two is unnecessarily strenuous.

The weight of the pig is the determining factor for most rookie soloists. Keep it light as possible.
Practice passing a knot on rappel and haul. It will give you a lot of useful experience with what can go wrong up there.
No one ever talks about the wind...

Edit- ya JT, I agree.
Practicing for big wall climbing is like practicing for sex.
My first aid climb was WotEML.

There are two major forces working against you in big wall climbing, gravity and your fears.
Christian George
From Ridgway CO, RVA
Joined Mar 15, 2016
0 points
Mar 21, 2016
Jeff0,

good that you plan to get some practice close to home.

1. read Chris Mac's How to big wall book if you haven't already
2. forget the tag rack thing. You won't be tagging on your first few walls.
3. carry paper and pen on your test runs. Write down the time it takes to do each thing: lead/ build anchor/ rap/release jug etc. So you know exactly where those 4 hours went. Then work on speeding up.
David Coley
From UK
Joined Oct 26, 2013
70 points
Mar 21, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: it's me
caribouman1052 wrote:
Would you like a copy of the "big wall training program" I came up with? It's aimed at learning the systems (hanging stove, setting up the ledge, hauling) involved in walls, not the physical fitness part.


Sure!
Jeff Harmon
Joined Mar 15, 2016
125 points
Mar 21, 2016
PM sent. Disclaimer - it doesn't cover everything. caribouman1052
Joined Nov 3, 2012
9 points


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