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Jun 1, 2016
So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes?? Eli lines
From Bonaire Georgia
Joined Feb 26, 2016
0 points
Jun 1, 2016
This is gunna get good... NorCalNomad
From San Francisco
Joined Oct 6, 2011
127 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
Eli lines wrote:
So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes??


Of course it's true that there are some 5.11d routes that are harder than some 5.12a routes, and yes this will be true for all "d" routes. That being said, in my experience most 5.12a routes are harder than most 5.11d routes, and similarly with other number grades as well.
kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Joined Aug 12, 2010
2,061 points
Jun 1, 2016
5.8
5.9
5.10a
5.10b
5.9+
5.10c

and so on.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,648 points
Administrator
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: !
I believe this topic was covered definitively by the late Brutus of Wyde (Bruce Bindner) who observed the canonical sequence of increasing difficulty:

5.11a
5.10d
5.11-
5.11b
5.11
5.11c
5.9 squeeze
5.11+
5.10 OW
5.12a
5.11d
Larry DeAngelo
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Nov 1, 2002
4,039 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me
Humor aside, depends on what you're good at! Could just be the local flavor, but it seems to me like 5.11 is the land of the crimps and 5.12 is the land of the slopers & pinches. If you're really good at pinches but can't crimp very well...

Same as how my first OW was a white-knuckle terror, despite only being a vedauwoo 5.9 ;)
Patrick Shyvers
From Fort Collins, CO
Joined Jul 16, 2013
16 points
Jun 1, 2016
I actually heard someone talking about this this weekend.

The idea is if the setter is a very strong climber setting a route below his grade he's more inclined to sand bag it. At the same time, a less strong climber will tend to bump the route grade. So you get strong climber's calling harder routes 11d, and weaker climbers calling routes 12a.

I believe the concept is that the stronger setters are less inclined to rate a route an a, so there are more "easy" 12a's and more "hard" 11d's.


It could also be a mental aspect. you expend "hard" from a d rating, and "easy" from an a rating, even if the number grade is one higher. Same reason 11.99 sound's more appealing than 12.00 maybe?

Who knows if it's true. It's all subjective anyway.

I climbed a 5.7 as a "warmup" the other day that I thought had 5.9 or 5.10a moves (and apparently so did other's after reading the route comments).
Brian L.
Joined Feb 19, 2016
81 points
Jun 1, 2016
Fluffers and 'baggers, man. caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Joined Nov 21, 2006
1,928 points
Jun 1, 2016
11d it is just an angry 12a

Rock Climbing Photo: 11d
11d


I was on a 11c this weekend at shelf that for me felt like 10d but I still think the climb is 11c. The guy that climb it before me barely made the move after several tries and I know he is stronger climber than I am.

I think it depends on the area and on era they put the climb. At shelf I think there is pretty distinct difference between 11s and 12a
JulianG
Joined Oct 27, 2009
135 points
Jun 1, 2016
What's a setter, isn't that a dog breed? tim
From Boulder, CO
Joined Aug 6, 2006
60 points
Jun 1, 2016
I can think of a few areas where 11d and 12a could be merged into one grade. And 12d/13a while we're at it... Cocoapuffs 1000
Joined Jun 10, 2008
7 points
Jun 1, 2016
I think it's about time we left the numbers at home and started to focus on the rocks Jake C
Joined Dec 22, 2015
7 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Topout on the Island
All climbing is subjective...nuff said. What is easy for me, will probably be hard for you. ChadMartino
Joined Jul 18, 2013
45 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Aleks
Jake C wrote:
I think it's about time we left the numbers at home and started to focus on the rocks


climbing friend,

No, numbers most important, make you feel yourself quite good! There is no other reason for climbing your rocks. However, it is yes quite fun to pretending you don't care about grades though, and attempt the making others feel poorly about this! Alternately, you may pretend you don't care about advance gradings, to justify your own eternal mediocrity, pretending you are above it all.

Yes, of course it is true most 11d harder than 12a. You may well forget about 11d route and just go straight the 12a.

Just follow your heart. That's what I do.
Aleks Zebastian
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2014
162 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Devil's Kitchen
Might as well start sub-categorizing the sub-categories if grade is sooooooooo important.

5.11a
5.11a.1
5.11a.2
5.11a.3
5.11a.4
5.11b
5.11b.1
5.11b.2
5.11b.3
5.11b.4

or the V scale
V9
V950
V955
V10
V1050
V1055
V11
V1150
V1155

Just climb and have fun!
Super Fluke
From Earth
Joined Mar 31, 2015
43 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Aleks
Super Fluke wrote:
Might as well start sub-categorizing the sub-categories if grade is sooooooooo important. 5.11a 5.11a.1 5.11a.2 5.11a.3 5.11a.4 5.11b 5.11b.1 5.11b.2 5.11b.3 5.11b.4 or the V scale V9 V950 V955 V10 V1050 V1055 V11 V1150 V1155 Just climb and have fun!


climbing friend,

I see you caring about your gradings, ho ho!


Rock Climbing Photo: gradingsaretheonlythingthatmattersyesssssss
gradingsaretheonlythingthatmattersyesssssss
Aleks Zebastian
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2014
162 points
Jun 1, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Devil's Kitchen
Aleks Zebastian wrote:
climbing friend, I see you caring about your gradings, ho ho!


Zing!
Super Fluke
From Earth
Joined Mar 31, 2015
43 points
Jun 1, 2016
Larry DeAngelo wrote:
I believe this topic was covered definitively by the late Brutus of Wyde (Bruce Bindner) who observed the canonical sequence of increasing difficulty: 5.11a 5.10d 5.11- 5.11b 5.11 5.11c 5.9 squeeze 5.11+ 5.10 OW 5.12a 5.11d


That seems right to me.
Dougald MacDonald
Joined Apr 13, 2002
917 points
Jun 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
Eli lines wrote:
So I was on Facebook the other day and came across an article that said 5.11d is harder than 12a. What are yalls thoughts on this? If it's true... Does that mean it's true for all d routes??



True for ALL "D" routes.
Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points
Jun 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Expatriot
That "d" thing is what I'm always wary of for sure.
I know when I was climbing 9s and 10s, those "9+" routes in the Gunks scared the shit out of me way more than a 10a or b.
frank minunni
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 26, 2011
128 points
Jun 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
Just think of it like this....

If you do a new route and call it 5.11... and your peers come along and its really a 5.10... your peers will say that you "SPRAYED".

One never wants their climbs to be down rated...


Think about this: Why, at some places, the opening moves are not part of the rating of the climb? (think Josh)
Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points
Jun 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Expatriot
Guy Keesee wrote:
Just think of it like this.... If you do a new route and call it 5.11... and your peers come along and its really a 5.10... your peers will say that you "SPRAYED". One never wants their climbs to be down rated... Think about this: Why, at some places, the opening moves are not part of the rating of the climb? (think Josh)

I agree. I never wanted one of my routes downgraded.
frank minunni
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined May 26, 2011
128 points
Jun 4, 2016
Here's how the ratings really are, in order of increasing difficulty:

5.10a
5.10b
5.10c
5.10d
5.11a
5.11b
5.11c
5.11d
5.12a
5.12b
5.12c
5.12d
5.13a
5.13b
5.13c
5.13d
5.9 old school

Unless you climb at Vedauwoo, then they are:

Strenuous
Awkward
Embarrassing
Strenuous-awkward
Strenuous-embarrassing
Awkward-embarrasing
Strenuous-Awkward-embarrasing

And every grade harder than strenuous is impossible for 5.14 sport climbers...
Arlo F Niederer
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Mar 20, 2009
310 points
Jun 4, 2016
Great... I'm about to head out there in a week... Eli lines
From Bonaire Georgia
Joined Feb 26, 2016
0 points
Jun 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Ringo at Riverside Boulder.
I don't care at all if my routes get downgraded. Being at the front end of the send train is always harder. Just as easy to spray by downgrading just so you can stroke your own ego. s.price
From PS,CO
Joined Dec 1, 2010
1,381 points
Jun 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenste...
s.price wrote:
I don't care at all if my routes get downgraded. Being at the front end of the send train is always harder. Just as easy to spray by downgrading just so you can stroke your own ego.



YES!
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
444 points


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