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SnowBird Slab/Cornerstone
Routes Sorted
L to R R to L Alpha
Born to be Mild S 
Gumby Drop  S 
Mr. Bill  T 
Nice Hole TR 
Poor Life Choices  T 
Possum Kingdom  T 
Santa Cruz S,TR 
Second Sally T,TR 
Snowflake T 
Thin As Ice S 
Tinsel Moose  T 
Unknown T 

Santa Cruz 

YDS: 5.6 French: 4c Ewbanks: 14 UIAA: V ZA: 12 British: S 4b PG13

   
Type:  Sport, TR, 30'
Original:  YDS: 5.6 French: 4c Ewbanks: 14 UIAA: V ZA: 12 British: S 4b PG13 [details]
FA: Amy Johnson, David Whitelaw
Page Views: 80
Submitted By: Chris McNeil on May 23, 2015

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (3)
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Santa Cruz

Description 

Fun short route on far left side of the crag. Climb chicken heads to the top.

Location 

Lookers left side of crag-first bolt line

Protection 

3 bolts, 2 bolt anchor.


Comments on Santa Cruz Add Comment
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By Dommelhiemer
Administrator
From: Anchorage
Jun 9, 2015
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b R

Again, please don't add bolts to existing climbs, while I agree this climb is heady, the ethics of Hatcher dictate that bolts should not be added to existing climbs without express permission of the FA. If new bolts are added, it will inevitably get chopped, permanently marring the stone.
By C.Williams
From: the Climber Cave
Jun 9, 2015

I second this. The suggestion of adding a bolt is concerning, especially when placed in the description. Please remove this from the description. It's hatcher, sack up and lead or leave it be.
By The Shocker
Jun 9, 2015

It would be awesome if people respected that ethic in other areas with harder climbs too.... Yeah right!
By Chris McNeil
From: Anchorage, AK
Jun 10, 2015

Edited. Certainly not trying to disrespect the location ethics, simply an idea to make a 15m moderate sport climb a little more reasonable.
By C.Williams
From: the Climber Cave
Jun 10, 2015

Much appreciated! It's good to remember that even though a climb in hatcher is protected by bolts it is not necessarily a sport route. This is a good example as are the Zulu slabs. While there are bolts a bolder, yet more careful climbing approach is needed as falling would likely be a bad time. Nearly all the routes in the area were put up on lead at a time when bolts were a last resort and this has become part of the area's ethic. Also, I may be wrong but I think you can sling a chickenhead before the first bolt.
By Chris McNeil
From: Anchorage, AK
Jun 10, 2015

Not on this route no. The first bolt is 7ft off the ground--its is a scary sit start I'll give it that. Second Bolt is about 20ft.
By Dommelhiemer
Administrator
From: Anchorage
Jun 11, 2015
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b R

That's why this route and the other are given R ratings, they were much more R rated when the bolts were 1/4 inch button heads...
By Chris McNeil
From: Anchorage, AK
Jul 16, 2015

Yes and that is good for the ego of the FA. My only point here is that the current lay out of bolts screens poor ethics. A bolt placed at essentially ground level gives the impression of a lack of ethics. Additionally, a run out on such an obscure short route (which is a sport route, sorry) makes the use of the bolts (that are not the originals) unlikely and hence the bolts are just liter.
By Dommelhiemer
Administrator
From: Anchorage
Jul 16, 2015
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b R

I'd suggest becoming familiar with the ethics of retrobolting not just here in Alaska, but throughout the country its a no go without the explicit permission of the FA party ego or not. Replacing existing hardware is acceptable, so unless you're interested in whipping on rusty 1/4 button heads, don't complain about routes that have been upgraded. Bolts do not make a route a sport route. Go do the slabs at Zulu, not really sport routes. Keep in mind that ethics have changed, and currently it would be considered unethical to retrobolt a route that isn't yours. I've climbed this route, and so have many others, they are used on a regular basis. Keep in mind that if new bolt appear on these climbs, they will get chopped (by me, or someone else) , marring the rock even more.
By Chris McNeil
From: Anchorage, AK
Jul 21, 2015

It was a suggestion to the community (maybe you should do the same before marring the rock yourself). Sorry I do not put a 15m slab on pare with anything other than a recreational sport route. And thanks I have done plenty of developing/restoration work on local crag classics to know what standard ethics are... Hell I have even FA'd a 5.6R myself, without putting in any bolts! How about this? Does anyone know how to contact the FAs? I would be glad to chat with them, see what they think, and even if given a green light give a 1 year period for feedback from the community before suggesting (again) the bolt actually go in.