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Rate my multipitch belay setup
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Oct 27, 2015
Just learning how to set up top-belays for multipitch sport routes. A friend is teaching me, but I figured I may as well practice on my own! I'm also going to give a quick description of my setup.

1. (Note that the black and red slings at top to which my anchors are attached are my "bolts")

2. PAS through tie-in points and attached to one bolt with locker, quickdraw clipped to other bolt and to PAS.

3. Cordellete made with double-length nylon sling, ATC-guide attached to end in guide mode. It doesn't look equalized in this picture, but when force is applied to the belay device it equalizes.

4. As I belay, rope is stacked over my PAS.

Let me know if there is anything wrong with this setup or what I need to change! I know there are a variety of other systems that I could use, but at the moment I am interested to see if this one is safe. Thanks!

Rock Climbing Photo: Belay
Belay
BKG
Joined Oct 27, 2015
58 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: wicked jacket boner in the bugs
Why not just clip the PAS to your yellow sling on the master point or shelf?

Less clutter, less gear, just as strong.
Matt Carroll
Joined Dec 9, 2013
42 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Banana Peel 10+
Ditch the PAS, clove to the masterpoint. Barrett Pauer
From Brevard, NC
Joined Apr 9, 2013
598 points
Oct 27, 2015
As pointed out, you have three more carabiners than you need. Use the masterpoint; that's what it's for. Ancent
From Reno, NV
Joined Apr 10, 2015
90 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: en route to wham ridge  Photo by Carl Schnitker
tie into the anchor with the rope instead of the PAS. use the PAS only for the raps. if you're walking off instead of rapping, don't even bother bringing it.

I personally prefer a quad for 2 bolts but your set-up is fine too. do keep in mind, though, that a set-up, such as the quad, that is pre-built will be faster and if you're climbing a lot of pitches time builds up.
eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
422 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Reporting Live from some where on Canon Cliff, Whi...
GU Climb wrote:
Just learning how to set up top-belays for multipitch sport routes. A friend is teaching me, but I figured I may as well practice on my own! I'm also going to give a quick description of my setup. 1. (Note that the black and red slings at top to which my anchors are attached are my "bolts") 2. PAS through tie-in points and attached to one bolt with locker, quickdraw clipped to other bolt and to PAS. 3. Cordellete made with double-length nylon sling, ATC-guide attached to end in guide mode. It doesn't look equalized in this picture, but when force is applied to the belay device it equalizes. 4. As I belay, rope is stacked over my PAS. Let me know if there is anything wrong with this setup or what I need to change! I know there are a variety of other systems that I could use, but at the moment I am interested to see if this one is safe. Thanks!


1 cordalette, 5 lockers, build equalized masterpoint, clove hitch shelf, dont die, dbl check, belay in guide mode
Derek Jf
From Northeast
Joined Feb 29, 2012
398 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: ice'n
for multi pitch sport (bolts there in good setup) i would just use the rope to do all that.

no need for cordalette, slings, pas...

rope goes from your harness to 1st bolt, locker and clove hitch, then figure 8 on a bight to correct length with atc guide, then cloved hitched to second bolt with a locker.

4 lockers, belay device, nothing else.
christoph benells
From tahoma
Joined Nov 14, 2014
239 points
Oct 27, 2015
GU Climb wrote:
Let me know if there is anything wrong with this setup or what I need to change! I know there are a variety of other systems that I could use, but at the moment I am interested to see if this one is safe. Thanks!


As others have mentioned, this could be simplified and cleaned up a bit. But yes, it is safe.
Em Cos
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 21, 2010
11 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Reporting Live from some where on Canon Cliff, Whi...
christoph benells wrote:
for multi pitch sport (bolts there in good setup) i would just use the rope to do all that. no need for cordalette, slings, pas... rope goes from your harness to 1st bolt, locker and clove hitch, then figure 8 on a bight to correct length with atc guide, then cloved hitched to second bolt with a locker. 4 lockers, belay device, nothing else.

touché sir, I respect your gangster
Derek Jf
From Northeast
Joined Feb 29, 2012
398 points
Oct 27, 2015
Alright, I thank you all for the feedback!

How does this look for a simpler setup?
Rock Climbing Photo: other
other
BKG
Joined Oct 27, 2015
58 points
Oct 27, 2015
GU Climb wrote:
Alright, I thank you all for the feedback! How does this look for a simpler setup?

Das right. But generally I wouldn't recomend a nylon sling. Dynema or cord meant for a cordelette are generally much easier to work with and give you more flexibility with the masterpoint.
jason.cre
Joined Aug 6, 2014
10 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: en route to wham ridge  Photo by Carl Schnitker
looks great although you may want to consider cloving your tie-in to the shelf instead of the master point, especially if you don't have a nice big loop for the master point. eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
422 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogsti...
Read Topic 6 - The Belay on multipitchclimbing.com/. Then buy the e-book. rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Joined Feb 15, 2008
544 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Lucander off the GT Ledge on p. 2 of Keep on Strut...
That set up is excellent.

Nylon v. dyneema is basically an academic debate. Dyneema ties tighter knots with less fabric, weighs less, nylon is more durable long term and offers a little elasticity should a stupidly high fall factor happen.

A great thread. Respectable query, clear answers. Mentoring and no bullshit. This is what makes the internet great.
lucander
From Stone Ridge, NY
Joined Apr 1, 2009
340 points
Oct 27, 2015
From your original set up, your belay device is lower than it should be relative to how far your pas is extended. Using the rope to tie off the correct length is a better way, IMO. Pete Spri
Joined Jun 1, 2009
217 points
Oct 27, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Mt. Agassiz
eli poss wrote:
looks great although you may want to consider cloving your tie-in to the shelf instead of the master point...


I'd like to second this, to keep everything a bit cleaner. Also, if you want to be totally anal-retentive, consider flipping the bolt-end carabiners so that the gate screws down. They are (slightly) less likely to unscrew or loosen up in this orientation.
Ryan Nevius
From Estes Park, Colorado
Joined Dec 29, 2010
991 points
Oct 27, 2015
Barrett Pauer wrote:
Ditch the PAS, clove to the masterpoint.


Bingo
tsherry
From Portland, OR
Joined Sep 15, 2013
527 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: en route to wham ridge  Photo by Carl Schnitker
Holy shit, did this actually get answered without PAS flaming?! Well done, MP, we're getting better. Oh and, as always, Yer Gonna Die! eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
422 points
Oct 28, 2015
GU Climb wrote:
Alright, I thank you all for the feedback! How does this look for a simpler setup?


I don't like that the load is almost totally on the right-hand piece. Re-tie the master point so that the load is better distributed.
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,618 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: God of Thunder
Another Trick is to tie yourself into the master point as you are, but then put your belay device into the shelf. If you can set the masterpoint higher it helps with rope management when your belaying up the second. wsperry
From San Jose/Lafayette
Joined Aug 20, 2014
49 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Tetons
Possibly consider reducing the angle between the two "bolts" by lengthening the sling (ie the master point will be further away from the bolts)... lower angle = less force on the bolts. ChrisN
From Morro Bay, CA
Joined Oct 14, 2014
39 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Reporting Live from some where on Canon Cliff, Whi...
eli poss wrote:
Holy shit, did this actually get answered without PAS flaming?! Well done, MP, we're getting better. Oh and, as always, Yer Gonna Die!

Oh snap, we did it? and he isn't gonna ded? We're gettin soft
Derek Jf
From Northeast
Joined Feb 29, 2012
398 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
eli poss wrote:
Holy shit, did this actually get answered without PAS flaming?! Well done, MP, we're getting better. Oh and, as always, Yer Gonna Die!

What about flaming people for using an auto-block belay ( guide mode ) devices? Why hasn't that been done here?
Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
376 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rick Blair wrote:
What about flaming people for using an auto-block belay ( guide mode ) devices? Why hasn't that been done here?


Um, because they are very useful tools when used appropriately?
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,618 points
Oct 28, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Mt Minsi, PA
GU Climb wrote:
Alright, I thank you all for the feedback! How does this look for a simpler setup?


This would work.

But what would work better?

Looks like you put an overhand knot in the sling. A figure 8 is easier to untie after being loaded BUT you're using too short amount of material to tie an 8. So, more material and you get a better knot and more options.

What side are you belaying on, and what side is your climber coming up on? An idea would be to maybe turn your clove biner over (spine on right, load strand on spine side) so you could be positioned on the right side of the master point and have your ATC directed more towards the left, allowing your climber come up on the left side. Makes the master point area a bit cleaner, easier to see and manage.

Little points, but it's about having more factors to your advantage.
Michael C
From New Jersey
Joined Jun 9, 2011
374 points
Oct 28, 2015
GU Climb wrote:
Alright, I thank you all for the feedback! How does this look for a simpler setup?


Much simpler, looks SERENE, but the issue you'll find in the real world is that your Guide-Mode ATC performs better when above your anchor in point. I'd keep your clove in the master point and clip the ATC into the "upper deck" of the anchor, placing it above your tie-in point. This will have it running smoother and allow you to escape the belay in a more efficient manner (mostly though it will run smoother).

As for the PAS, they are perfectly acceptable to use and in many cases faster than cloving in with the rope. I don't really get the Proj's hate on them, they work great for the intended use and are just an additional tool in your arsenal.

The biggest issue with your first anchor was that the carabiners your PAS was clipped into appeared to be at more than a 90* angle. Adds too much force to the system. Clipping into the master point is a much better solution.
Ryan Hill
From Oakland, CA
Joined Dec 8, 2009
33 points


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