Route Guide    Partners    Forum    Photos    What's New    Journal        
Sign Up  |   Log In:Login with Facebook
REI Community
Rappel belay device
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
Jan 27, 2016
I'm getting 11mm static line for rappelling and I need to know what kind of belay device to use with a 11mm rope. I weigh 110lbs. Thanks Jacob Feia
Joined Jan 27, 2016
0 points
Jan 27, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Yes
I would recommend an ATC guide. Super versatile. grog m aka Greg McKee
Joined Aug 29, 2012
115 points
Jan 27, 2016
I'd second the ATC Guide.

Easy to use, light and you can:
1. rappel on 1 or 2 ropes
2. belay off your harness
3. belay 1 or 2 followers offf the anchor in "guide mode"

One thing to be aware of- not a great choice for lowering anyone if used in guide mode.

Figure 8's are OK to rap with but not ideal for belaying, so you would end up carrying 2 devices.
Jim Fox
From Westminster, CO
Joined Jun 16, 2014
73 points
Jan 27, 2016
Jacob,
You said you are buying a 11mm static line. Are you just rapping or are you planning on climbing in the near future?

If you are just rappelling almost any device will work. As noted above, the figure 8 is great from rappelling on fatty ropes like you have. The petzel pirana is a similar device that allows you to change the fiction setting on your rappels and allows you to lock off with the device. An ATC will also work for rappelling but will be pretty slow with a 11mm rope.
matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
160 points
Jan 27, 2016
If you are strictly rappelling and don't need a belay device (for vertical caving or some canyoneering) this device works quite well but is heavy, expensive and not versatile:

rescuegear.com/smc-micro-u-rac...
Jim Fox
From Westminster, CO
Joined Jun 16, 2014
73 points
Jan 27, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Red Rock
Although an ATC Guide is rated for up to a 11mm rope it can be a pain trying to get anything over 10.5 through it. ViperScale
Joined Dec 22, 2013
201 points
Jan 27, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: BD Fuel
The OP asked for a device to rappel on 11mm static. The best answer came in the first response. Buy a fig8. Cheap and easy to setup. rocknice2
From Montreal, Quebec
Joined Nov 27, 2006
3,024 points
Jan 27, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
^^^ this answer and the first answer by John Marsella are the best answers. Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
999 points
Jan 27, 2016
Be aware of the failure mode of the figure 8

theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/...

Certain biners might have sleeves to prevent this

Also certain professional (not recreational) carabiners have a high push in and gate loading rating that prevent it as well

As always find someone experienced to show you how .... Or you may become food for mu beahz !!!

;)
bearbreeder
Joined Mar 1, 2009
3,068 points
Jan 27, 2016
Greg D wrote:
^^^ this answer and the first answer by John Marsella are the best answers.

I agree that figure 8 is a good option for rapping on a fat rope.
I used one for many years to rap . Haven't used one in many years but it's simple, safe and works well.

If you are looking at long rappels or dirty,wet rappels (like in caving), a rappel rack is a great option

I've used an ATC on 11mm ropes years ago, when ropes were typically fatter, and it worked Ok
Jim Fox
From Westminster, CO
Joined Jun 16, 2014
73 points
May 14, 2016
I like the petzl rig buttttttt I also use it for work. It's pretty much a grigri on steroids Kevin Beadle
Joined Jul 5, 2015
0 points
May 14, 2016
One option might be a rack, they look like this:
petzl.com/US/EN/Sport/Belay-de...
r m
Joined Apr 29, 2015
0 points
May 15, 2016
Should try the Sterling ATS belay/rappel device. I've used it on 11.4 mm rope, not too terrible. In a pinch, you can also use the ATS as a tube-style belay device, and as a plaquette belay device, but tbh it kinda sucks for that.

backcountry.com/sterling-ats
ntlhui
Joined Feb 22, 2016
1 points
May 18, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: N Seoul Tower
Rock Climbing Photo: Air Assault!!
Air Assault!!

This is the way I originally learned. Single snaplink on a swiss seat. Knuckle to spine contact will stop you.

Oh, I have so many stories from teaching basic trainees to rappel as a drill sergeant....
trentbrown
From Seoul, Korea
Joined May 23, 2015
61 points
May 18, 2016
trent - thank you for your service.

But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?
Gunkiemike
Joined Jul 29, 2009
2,648 points
May 18, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Gunkiemike wrote:
trent - thank you for your service. But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?


Why not. Rappelling is stupid simple. It's discipline, awareness and and a large dose of pay the fuck attention that makes rappelling safer, not all the other bs that others are believing will keep them safe. Imagine if every climber learned how to rappel from a drill Sargent. There would be way less fuck ups out there.

Thanks Trent for your contribution and way more for your service.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
999 points
May 19, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: N Seoul Tower
Gunkiemike wrote:
trent - thank you for your service. But please let's not suggest assault rigging for recreational climber use, k?


I should have been more clear about my intentions when I posted. My point is that there are many safe ways to rappel for trained people. Myself and two other drill sergeants would inspect and send 220 rappellers on tower day. Almost every Soldier sent down the ropes had never rappelled like that before. With professional instruction and guidance, rappelling using the military method can be fun and fast... almost the fastest method of moving Soldiers vertically down where time is important, i.e. bad guys with guns are around (fastroping is faster but IMO not as safe).

You are correct, I should not, and do not condone recreational climbers using this method without proper training, instruction, and supervised practice, and I should have mentioned that in my original post, especially in a beginner's thread.
trentbrown
From Seoul, Korea
Joined May 23, 2015
61 points
May 19, 2016
Greg D wrote:
Imagine if every climber learned how to rappel from a drill Sargent. There would be way less fuck ups out there. Thanks Trent for your contribution and way more for your service.


Yep. The US Military is absolutely not known for its "fuck ups".

Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement:
rt.com/usa/afghanistan-pentago...
warisboring.com/heres-how-the-...

Yep, lets get our advice from the military. Good idea.
patto
Joined Jul 9, 2012
25 points
May 19, 2016
patto wrote:
Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement: rt.com/usa/afghanistan-pentago... warisboring.com/heres-how-the-...


Sounds more like a knee-jerk anti-military statement than anything about climbing / rappelling.

Still, I tend to agree ...

Unlike simply two partners swapping leads, the military environment is going to foster climb / rap techniques that suit their purposes - some already mentioned upstream.

It is similar for the guide-service environments where the money-for-service paradigm brings in influences that are quite different than a couple peers roping up.

And, yet, cross-pollination between the different environments can be a good thing. Just don't turn off the "brain switch".
Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
May 19, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: N Seoul Tower
Patto, I am not going to touch your comments about my chosen profession, but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it.

Bill, I think the reason the military does things a certain way is that it can and will work in every given situation, given enough trained personnel and equipment. As recreational climbers, we have the option to set up anchors anyway we see fit and tailor the method to the situation. In the military, we tend to go overkill on carrying equipment in order to use a single proven method. Also the method used to rappel is quick to setup, inspect, and rappel with a qualified rappel master at the top. I could send a trained soldier down a 40 foot face about every five to ten seconds on one rope, if the need arose to quickly insert as many soldiers as possible. This would also include a fireman's belay at the bottom instead of a prussic backup.

In my civilian climbing and rappelling, I never use the military method because there are better techniques for the situation. It is always an option, though, because I have the training and experience, and it has been proven safe if done correctly.
trentbrown
From Seoul, Korea
Joined May 23, 2015
61 points
May 19, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Epic belay shot
Fyi to any new climbers, what is pictured is not a munter and is not a safe way to rappel without gloves. This really isn't a best practice, but thanks for sharing Trent? Don't know what the purpose of sharing something that's inherently dangerous on a site answering a beginner's question... 'cool' factor of being military maybe? Lots of us have 'cool' factor 'stuff' we could share that's just not appropriate for a climbing conversation.

Sharing a picture of this puts the risk that someone might think this is a good idea, and not having experience or instruction with this method attempt it (almost certainly without gloves) and could fall to their death... and I could go on about something 'cool' here but it's not necessary for a discussion of rappelling, which is lame to begin with.

Cause no one is shooting at anyone and I don't know anyone that raps with gloves... so cool but irresponsible I guess?

In all seriousness, thank you for your service.
Medic741
From Red Hook, New York
Joined Apr 1, 2012
288 points
May 20, 2016
trentbrown wrote:
Patto, I am not going to touch your comments about my chosen profession, but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it.

I don't expect or believe you have to. My comments weren't anti military. Not in the least.

But the military, like most people and organisations which are run by people, seem just as prone to "fuck ups". My comments were simply responding to the absurd comments insinuating that the military is less likely to "fuck up".

Greg D wrote:
Imagine if every climber learned how to rappel from a drill Sargent. There would be way less fuck ups out there.

It was this comment that I took exception to. Nothing about military or those who serve or have served.


I'm sure you have worked with many very competent people in the military. Though you are probably also aware of certain incompetent ones, whether they be grunts or pencil pusher giving orders.
patto
Joined Jul 9, 2012
25 points
May 20, 2016
Trent,

I was mostly responding to my previous misconception of patto's remark. And I enjoy hearing / seeing how other "disciplines" accomplish the same basic thing.

A friend of mine also described another method of fast raps from a helicopter (from decades ago): someone else attaches a biner with munter to the back of the harness, grab the brake strand in one hand, rap fast and face down with your weapon in the other hand so you can shoot as needed.

trentbrown wrote:
I think the reason the military does things a certain way is that it can and will work in every given situation, given enough trained personnel and equipment.


Yep - I'm sure the technique / equipment has been well thought out to work reliably in a war setting for a wide range of individuals and situations. Even so, I'm a little cagey about simply adopting military tactics in a climbing world of friends.

Military equipment may be stronger and, so, prohibitively heavier for some climbing venues. When a caver's belay isn't practical, KISS likely prevails over, say, rigging a rap backup. The risk of getting killed by erring during a "faster / more efficient" technique may be accepted over the risk of getting killed by the enemy due to a technique that is too slow.

In the above, I'm kind of guessing at the drivers that would lead to the military promoting something differently. I know a little more (but not a whole lot) about hired guiding. The guiding paradigm - money for service - certainly has drivers that lead guides to do things differently with clients than a couple of experienced friends climbing together.

Also, as beginners morph into experienced climbers, somewhere in there it is critical to learn to adapt to changing circumstances in the non-war world and so sometimes deviate from The Chosen Way. In that, a whole world of possible options are opened up when one does not have to contend with an enemy with their finger on the trigger.
Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
May 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
trentbrown....Thank you for your service, it is needed. You get to show new recruits their first look at real terror and help them work past it.

The Method you show is a perfectly good method of rapping... way back when I learned, one needed to know the Duffersitz (sp), the one biner method- the one you show, carabiner brake ( a method of using some gear you already have- for those who don't know), and then you learned how to use all of the different devices....their strength and weaknesses.

ALL BEGINNERS NEED TO KNOW HOW THIS WORKS.... it might just help you get out of a real jam.


Patto wrote: "Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement:....... "

Patto..... the Military does what it is ordered to do, by the political leaders, and they do it. You got a beef, take it up with those people.


Happy climbing all

Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points
May 20, 2016
Guy Keesee wrote:
Patto wrote: "Pointless wars, deaths of 100,000s of innocents, creation of lawless states which promote extremism.... Oh and lets not forget just plain old mismanagement:....... " Patto..... the Military does what it is ordered to do, by the political leaders, and they do it. You got a beef, take it up with those people.


I have no "beef". But the military is not some faultless or blameless organisation. See, especially the mismanagement part. That isn't politicians that the pencil pushers in the military. But yes, wars are normally instigated by politicians.

The world is filled with flaws, and the military is no different. This was never meant to be a discussion about the military but at least lets take off the rose colored glasses and be realistic.
patto
Joined Jul 9, 2012
25 points
May 20, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
""The world is filled with flaws, and the military is no different. This was never meant to be a discussion about the military but at least lets take off the rose colored glasses and be realistic."


No organization is perfect....

But I like to give all Military people respect, after all these are the guys and girls who will go on to the two way rifle range, for you, if need be. Think about that for a moment. Makes all climbing seem sort of trivial.

Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 2.  1  2   Next>   Last>>