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Quasi-Floating Belay?
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Dec 1, 2015
Anyone using this configuration at bolted belays as a common practice?

Belayer is up top and directly attached to a single bolt. Rope runs from belay device through biners of two draws and down to the climber below. Idea is if "direct" single point fails, belayer falls into counter-balancing with climber.

Rock Climbing Photo: Quasi-Floating Belay?
Quasi-Floating Belay?


My primary concern is belayer movement leading to belay failure should the single point fail - especially with a lot of rope out.
Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Myself placing a a blue/yellow offset MC to protec...
how is this different from a normal two quickdraw anchor and those failure modes? rock_fencer
From Columbia, SC
Joined Dec 20, 2009
311 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Groove Tube - Tonsai, Thailand
Doesn't seem like a common practice to me at all.

Why not just set up a quad or any other equalized anchor on the two bolts and save yourself the time and provide some peace of mind?
PJHeinz83
From Pennsylvania
Joined Feb 19, 2013
15 points
Dec 1, 2015
as described, this depends on the climber's (and belayer's) body weight as the point of redundancy. which is simulclimbing... sure, it's relatively safe. but there are better ways to create redundancy in an anchor. ton
From Salt Lake City
Joined Aug 1, 2014
0 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Reporting Live from some where on Canon Cliff, Whi...
following just for the stick figure diagrams, please let there be more Derek Jf
From Northeast
Joined Feb 29, 2012
398 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Mt. Colden Summit
Why not just use a banshee belay? Locker on both bolts, rope cloved into both lockers, belay off a locker attached to one of the cloved lockers redirected or guide mode. Less gear equally quick more redundant( not as safe as standard methods with equalized master point but on two solid bolts more than safe enough for me). Ryan M Moore
Joined Oct 14, 2014
40 points
Dec 1, 2015
This is just a harness belay redirected off the anchor. The only potential problem is the lack of redundancy of the belayer's tie-in. Add an extra clove hitch to the other bolt and you're good. Em Cos
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 21, 2010
11 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: BD Fuel
Ryan M Moore wrote:
Why not just use a banshee belay? Locker on both bolts, rope cloved into both lockers, belay off a locker attached to one of the cloved lockers redirected or guide mode. Less gear equally quick more redundant( not as safe as standard methods with equalized master point but on two solid bolts more than safe enough for me).


^^^^^ this ^^^^
rocknice2
From Montreal, Quebec
Joined Nov 27, 2006
3,024 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: The traverse out to the Yellow Ridge on the Dogsti...
It's potentially a bad idea if either the geometry of the stance and/or a weight mismatch with much heavier follower allows the belayer, and, more critically, the belay device, to be pulled into the carabiners on the draws. rgold
From Poughkeepsie, NY
Joined Feb 15, 2008
544 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Hammer Block
I agree with several of the points already made. Either its two opposed draws on bolts and thatas fine to me. But personally I'd go with some sort of banshee set up with guide mode. Jeremy in Inyokern
From Inyokern
Joined Jul 10, 2012
80 points
Dec 1, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: On the North America Wall in 1977.
What's the point?

Safer than simply tying into both bolts? Faster?

I don't see any advantages.
Mark Hudon
From Lives on the road
Joined Jul 27, 2009
373 points
Dec 1, 2015
Thank you, everyone.

I will not try to defend it over other methods - it does not fall into the set of criteria that I think of as preferred.

And it appears no one here is using it as a common practice. Still, if someone is using it, feel free to elaborate.

I wouldn't say it should never be used. Even the lowly stance belay has a place under certain circumstances.
Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
Dec 2, 2015
Bill, if you remove the right hand quick draw from your diagram then not common, but done reasonably often when moving very fast with solid belay bolts.

As in:
draw on left hand bolt, clip rope through it
locker on right hand bolt, clove hitch into that with lead rope
hang off right hand bolt
pull slack up
put grigri on
bring second up
second hangs from grigri (with an overhand in the rope as a backup) when they reach the belay to sort gear, then leads the next pitch with the draw as the jesus piece

At all times there are two bolts between you and death. But I guess if the right hand bolt failed just as you take the slack up it would be a long fall. A grigri is required as it is your back up if the right hand bolt fails when the second is climbing. The combo of grigri and redirect works well.

Hope that is useful.
David Coley
From UK
Joined Oct 26, 2013
70 points
Dec 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Hammer Block
The reason I don't use the set up in the picture for multi is that it eats up gear (quick draws) that could be given to the second for the next pitch. Again I would use a pair of lockers and banshee them them. Jeremy in Inyokern
From Inyokern
Joined Jul 10, 2012
80 points
Dec 2, 2015
Makes sense, David. The addition of a break assisting device is hopeful. But I think it could come hard up against the biner of the draw and so the cam might be forced open. Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
Dec 3, 2015
Bill Lawry wrote:
Makes sense, David. The addition of a break assisting device is hopeful. But I think it could come hard up against the biner of the draw and so the cam might be forced open.


I guess this is possible whenever part of the belay is clipped as a jesus piece.
David Coley
From UK
Joined Oct 26, 2013
70 points
Dec 3, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Who makes the best rice?
Simpler is better. UncleBen
From Steele, AL
Joined Jan 12, 2007
1,809 points
Dec 3, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: GB atop p.1, still Looking for Trouble, Nov 2, 201...
I prefer the OP's belay configuration (but with belayer attached to both bolts) over using an autoblock anchored to a power point. This configuration is faster to set up, and lowering the second is easy. And you don't need to set up a Munter-hitch back-up before going to the difficulty of releasing a loaded rope from an autoblock.

The OP's belay configuration is especially desirable if the second of this pitch is going to lead through on the next pitch. Having protection between the belayer and the leader of the next pitch would prevent a factor-2 fall directly onto the belayer. To prevent the belay device from getting pulled into the draws, the belayer should hang from a longer tether attached to each belay bolt.
George Bracksieck
Joined Oct 4, 2008
1,317 points
Dec 3, 2015
Derek Jf wrote:
following just for the stick figure diagrams, please let there be more

needs more asteroid...
Jake D.
From Northeast
Joined Nov 23, 2006
460 points
Dec 3, 2015
Leaders aren't tied in. Everybody dies lol. However, they died doing what they loved, i.e., suffering blunt force trauma. Die hard indeed. mtc
Joined Nov 14, 2014
15 points
Dec 4, 2015
GB: " To prevent the belay device from getting pulled into the draws, the belayer should hang from a longer tether attached to each belay bolt."

I am not sure this would be enough at the extreme end of a big fall.
Bill Lawry
From New Mexico
Joined Apr 16, 2006
1,718 points
Dec 4, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Hanging out waiting for Die Antwoord to come on st...
mtc wrote:
...Everybody dies lol. However, they died doing what they loved, i.e., suffering blunt force trauma...


Day = made.
Alicia Sokolowski
From Brooklyn, NY
Joined Aug 11, 2010
456 points
Dec 4, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: High Exposure
Bill Lawry wrote:
GB: " To prevent the belay device from getting pulled into the draws, the belayer should hang from a longer tether attached to each belay bolt." I am not sure this would be enough at the extreme end of a big fall.


Google "Chariot belay"
wivanoff
Joined Mar 3, 2012
409 points


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