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Placing gear on sport (bolted) route = negative style?
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 Sep 17, 2013 Is this a rhetorical question or one that has no correct answer? rgingFrom Salt Lake City, UtJoined Jul 18, 2011206 points
 Sep 17, 2013 csproul wrote: John, that is not entirely true. If you pull up slack and miss the clip and fall, the fall is the same length as it would be if you climbed up to the bolt (at waist level), missed the clip and fell, assuming you didn't pull up excess slack. Draw a diagram and I think you'll see that this is true, unless I have really missed something with my math (it's happened before!). The main difference is that you'd end up lower clipping above your head, so that is a real consideration if there is groundfall (or ledge) potential, which is relevant to the OP. I still think that your suggestion of using an extended draw is probably one of the best options out there...especially if you can get your climbing partner to hang it:) fair enough- i did the math in my head and you're right. however, the fact that you start your fall lower, but fall the same distance is an obvious consideration if you're clipping at or below the 3rd bolt. John WilderFrom Las Vegas, NVJoined Feb 1, 20042,461 points
 Sep 17, 2013 csproul wrote: John, that is not entirely true. If you pull up slack and miss the clip and fall, the fall is the same length as it would be if you climbed up to the bolt (at waist level), missed the clip and fell, assuming you didn't pull up excess slack. Draw a diagram and I think you'll see that this is true, unless I have really missed something with my math (it's happened before!). The main difference is that you'd end up lower clipping above your head, so that is a real consideration if there is groundfall (or ledge) potential, which is relevant to the OP. I still think that your suggestion of using an extended draw is probably one of the best options out there...especially if you can get your climbing partner to hang it:) quite doing math, and redraw the diagram your self. If you clip above your waist the rope has to go to the piece of gear then back down to your harness as opposed to a simple "point a to point B" (think of going around your ass to get to your elbow) Draw the picture and you WILL (should) see it, simple arifmaktic! Avalon'chaFrom your girlfriend's bedroomJoined Aug 30, 20133 points
 Sep 17, 2013 Eric Engberg wrote: But you are not going for a LONGER ride - as has been shown by several people - I was first - up thread. Yes you might deck out because you end up lower - the point you are obsessing on - but conversly you may end up smacking your mellon on the edge of an over hang that you would have cleared if you had fallen lower. Contived scenerio - absolutely. But what is not conjecture is the fact taht you see people bypassing huge clipping holds below a bolt so that they can climb up higher and skip from sketchy holds "because it's safer". What is so difficult about grasping the concept of clipping from the best holds? but the length of fall is still longer, but the clipping is easier from below the bolt. As is the age old saying "It depends..." Avalon'chaFrom your girlfriend's bedroomJoined Aug 30, 20133 points
 Sep 17, 2013 Avalon'cha wrote: but the length of fall is still longer, but the clipping is easier from below the bolt. As is the age old saying "It depends..." Nope - not longer. Just end lower but you start your fall from a lower point too. Eric EngbergJoined Apr 28, 20092 points
 Sep 17, 2013 Eric Engberg wrote: Nope - not longer. Just end lower but you start your fall from a lower point too. I don't climb on static ropes so my calculations account for rope stretch. Two inches could easily be the difference between a good bar story & a compound fracture. Climb "safe" ;) Avalon'chaFrom your girlfriend's bedroomJoined Aug 30, 20133 points
 Sep 17, 2013 I would say, maybe. Maybe it could be considered bad style. Why? Because sport is meant to be done with bolts. Listen, it's practically the same as when a trad climber gets angry when someone bolts a crack. The two worlds should not intersect in this area. jk Placing gear is fun, and sometimes practical or required to keep a sport route's safety rating relatively soft. And it keeps the amount of holes in the stone lower. Some of my favorite climbs are traditionally done with both bolts and gear. Jon ZuccoFrom Denver, COJoined Aug 15, 2008374 points