Petzl Nomics vs Grivel Force/Master Alloy
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Anyone directly compare these two tools? |
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I've directly compared the cost of either one as being outrageous and not in my budget...that's as much as I know. |
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coop wrote:Anyone directly compare these two tools?I own a set of 1st gen Nomics and Love them, they climb ice well (better when the cascade pick was available). and dry tool closely second to the BD (green) fusions with the mixed pick, simply based on that the fusion handle is a bit more comfortable on long over hangs,I climb M5 to M6. The Grivles, I had a chance to Demo these this last weekend at an ice fest. They climb ice WI4+ - WI5) quite well. They drytool amazingly well, I like the splattered rubberized grip but the handle is thinner than the nomic and after a few hours start to hurt my finger joints more than the Nomics. If you get the chance and are more of a Ice climber than a mixed climber I would also recommend keeping the Cassin X-Dreams as a option. I pretty much replaced my Nomics for pure ice with these. IMHO either tool is great, the Grivels get style points for sure, but you can not go wrong with either of those tools. I would recommend trying both on and see what works for you. |
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I have the new nomics. I'm going to try out a few of the Grivel tools this winter as well as those X Dreams. Thanks for the information and opinion. |
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I'll take your new nomics off your hands ; ). |
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Jeff J wrote: I own a set of 1st gen Nomics and Love them, they climb ice well (better when the cascade pick was available). and dry tool closely second to the BD (green) fusions with the mixed pick, simply based on that the fusion handle is a bit more comfortable on long over hangs,I climb M5 to M6. The Grivles, I had a chance to Demo these this last weekend at an ice fest. They climb ice WI4+ - WI5) quite well. They drytool amazingly well, I like the splattered rubberized grip but the handle is thinner than the nomic and after a few hours start to hurt my finger joints more than the Nomics. If you get the chance and are more of a Ice climber than a mixed climber I would also recommend keeping the Cassin X-Dreams as a option. I pretty much replaced my Nomics for pure ice with these. IMHO either tool is great, the Grivels get style points for sure, but you can not go wrong with either of those tools. I would recommend trying both on and see what works for you.So you're saying the BD Fusions are really good for mixed? Wanna check those out. I would like to have a pair of tools just for drytooling that aren't another pair of X Dreams. I drop my tools lots when climbing mixed. Too fat for all that crazy M whatever action! |
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Here are my impressions on the currently available tools I've climbed with over the years. Ice tools no longer in production are excluded. |
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this.....when they become available. |
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Jon, Ergos are an overkill for vertical techy climbs like Seamstress. Nomics would've been better. Ergos are more suitable for overhanging cave climbs |
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Jon H wrote: BD COBRA One of my favorite all around tools, especially for alpinism. Only sold it because matching on the upper grip causes pick shift which is kinda scary, especially when you're run out.I've noticed this as well, the upper pinky rest is both too small and has mediocre balance. |
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I originally had the latest generation Quarks, loved them for steep ice but the upper grip was garbage and broke on me. Switched to Nomics and climbed all last season on them. They're a great all-around tool but the picks leave something to be desired for ice. Bought X-Dreams this season and I've never had so many one-hit sticks before. You can rail them into the ice with no trouble and they clean easily. The grip and structure takes a minute to get used to since it's so heavily recessed. |
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^^^^ What Jon H said! |
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Thanks Jon! I appreciate all the information.. Lots to think about. I agree with everything you said about tools I've used. sounds like you haven't tried the X-dreams. You can try mine if you return my email. Haha. |
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Thank you all for your opinions and information, it is very helpful. I stopped in Ouray Mountain Sports again today and checked out there great stock of tools. I think I'm going to try a pair of the Quantum Techs for pure waterfall ice this year. I have really enjoyed my 2nd gen nomics thus far, but they seem to be more suited for mixed climbing. |
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Kirby1013 wrote: So you're saying the BD Fusions are really good for mixed? Wanna check those out. I would like to have a pair of tools just for drytooling that aren't another pair of X Dreams. I drop my tools lots when climbing mixed. Too fat for all that crazy M whatever action!IMHO - I really like the fusions for dry tooling, the titan pick is quite durable, they excel on the rock way over how the fusions do on the ice. There are other tools out there that are splendid as well, but the Fusion handle really fits my hand well and is comfortable for extended overhanging climbs. The tool hooks dime edges well for me and feel secure. I have used my X-dreams and Nomics as well they do just fine but I just like the Fusion the most for dry routes. The X-dream climbs Ice way better but on rock I find that the pick really take a beating on rock. BD's titan pick last much longer. That my 2 cents anywho |
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I agree with the consensus here about the Fusions on ice, hell, Black Diamond even knows this, hence the new Fuel tools. But I've always found it interesting that when I see videos of Josh Wharton alpine climbing he oftentimes uses the Fusions, even in situations where he's opted to use crampons with horizontal front points. Obviously, the dude is way better at climbing than any of us. But still, seems like he would have noticed the same limitations we all have. |
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Jeff J wrote: IMHO - I really like the fusions for dry tooling, the titan pick is quite durable, they excel on the rock way over how the fusions do on the ice. There are other tools out there that are splendid as well, but the Fusion handle really fits my hand well and is comfortable for extended overhanging climbs. The tool hooks dime edges well for me and feel secure. I have used my X-dreams and Nomics as well they do just fine but I just like the Fusion the most for dry routes. The X-dream climbs Ice way better but on rock I find that the pick really take a beating on rock. BD's titan pick last much longer. That my 2 cents anywhoI appreciate your 2 cents! I also have noticed that Cassin picks don't stay sharp as long as others. I thought it was due the fact that when I get desperate I start taking a swing at the rock. Well it's probably that too. Blueprint.. When you're a pro you use what the sponsor tells you! Haha |
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Blueprint wrote:I agree with the consensus here about the Fusions on ice, hell, Black Diamond even knows this, hence the new Fuel tools...Fuel prototypes have been around at least since 2011/2012 when I first saw them in SLC. Looks unchanged for the most part other than the typical bitches about the Fusion 2. I wouldn't get your hopes up that the Fuel is any better on ice than the Fusion 2 is now. More open pommel, no hammer on the head to unbalance it and an option in BD picks is still not going to make a Fusion/Fuel a Nomic or a X Dream on ice. Nice new paint job though. Those horizontal front points? Often a better choice on the typical Canadian WI6 than vertical fronts btw. |
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Kirby1013 wrote: I appreciate your 2 cents! I also have noticed that Cassin picks don't stay sharp as long as others. I thought it was due the fact that when I get desperate I start taking a swing at the rock. Well it's probably that too. Blueprint.. When you're a pro you use what the sponsor tells you! HahaThe Cassin picks are thin and fairly small. Definitely an advantage on ice but if you compare them to the Nomic picks, they're notably more delicate. I find the Cassin picks displace less ice in general. Once my Petzl picks were filed down a bit and more shaped they performed quite a bit better. Not sure why they're so crappy right out of the box. The Cassin picks are $10-15 cheaper than Petzl picks, which is nice too. |
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Petzl's original Cascade picks changed a couple of seasons ago to a DRY and a ICE pick. Neither are as good on ice IMO as the original Cascade pick was. The newer picks were designed to improve their ability on mixed. The re-design wasn't a big help on pure water ice. Too much hook on the front tooth is part of the cause. But not all. Angle changed as well. It got steeper. To help hooking on hard mixed as well. Both new Petzl picks are T rated now. The Cascade wasn't T rated but performed like a T pick in the field and would out perform and out last anything that was currently available at the time. |
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Oh boy, I know it's coming.. The ol Fancy ice tools don't matter if your footwork is there comment! Wait for it.. Wait for it.. |