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Patagonia boycotts Outdoor Retailer show in support of Bears Ears...
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4 days ago
Morgan Patterson wrote:
btw why the fuck would we need coal 200 years from now???
No need to cuss Admin. As for idiotic positions, we don't have flying cars, and never will. We will never be able to mine in space even if we can develop "star trek" type speed. The distances are too great, AND the problems of being able to get mined materials back down to the planet SAFELY in any quantity is impossible. If you could though, increasing the mass of the planet by bringing extraterrestrial materials back would eventually change the earths gravity and orbit. As for using coal in 200 years, if the US goes entirely hydro-electric, solar or wind for our power by then China and the rest of the world will still be using fossil fuels.

I'm a realist, not an idiot. JB
John Barritt
From OKC
Joined Oct 13, 2016
859 points
Administrator
4 days ago
John Barritt wrote:
No need to cuss Admin. As for idiotic positions, we don't have flying cars, and never will. We will never be able to mine in space even if we can develop "star trek" type speed. The distances are too great, AND the problems of being able to get mined materials back down to the planet SAFELY in any quantity is impossible. If you could though, increasing the mass of the planet by bringing extraterrestrial materials back would eventually change the earths gravity and orbit. As for using coal in 200 years, if the US goes entirely hydro-electric, solar or wind for our power by then China and the rest of the world will still be using fossil fuels. I'm a realist, not an idiot. JB


For clarification I'm not calling you an idiot, just your position... like that we'd need coal in 250 years. Or that as you just asserted, other countries wont evolve/progress in 250 years.

I get it you're pessimistic about the whole thing...

But look where we've come since 1767.. from horse and buggies to flying hoverboard, cars, and motorcycles and all the worlds knowledge in a pocket-sized computer you carry around with you.
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,157 points
3 days ago
I don't know who on this thread responded to my plea for letters but it appears that we have been heard and action has resulted in part owing to the mass boycott of and media coverage given to that boycott of the Outdoor Retailer show. Thanks Patagonia for leading the way.

outdoorindustry.org/article/oi...
craggy
Joined Sep 12, 2011
0 points
3 days ago
Morgan Patterson wrote:
and all the worlds knowledge in a pocket-sized computer you carry around with you.

more powerful than the computers that sent multiple people to the freakin moon
Joseph Dul
From New Milford, CT
Joined Jul 15, 2016
15 points
Administrator
3 days ago
Joseph Dul wrote:
more powerful than the computers that sent multiple people to the freakin moon


I do believe so...

And on topic... yes its great to see the industry taking action after Patagonia's first step. Cheers to Yvon.
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,157 points
3 days ago
Show now leaving Utah altogether....

sltrib.com/home/4952414-155/ou...
BatMasterson
Joined Aug 4, 2016
10 points
3 days ago
rging wrote:
Western society makes me laugh. People screaming to lock up millions upon millions of acres while using more resources than anyone on the planet in the history of humans. 99% of everything you own and work with comes from mining, drilling, and forestry. Same with all the power you use.


That's an incredibly simplistic take. Do you realize that many of us exist in between the extremes your post suggests?
RMS
Joined Aug 20, 2014
15 points
3 days ago
BatMasterson wrote:
Show now leaving Utah altogether.... sltrib.com/home/4952414-155/ou...


Thank you for posting that!
RMS
Joined Aug 20, 2014
15 points
3 days ago
BatMasterson wrote:
Show now leaving Utah altogether.... sltrib.com/home/4952414-155/ou...

Good. Based on the govs response sounds like the state has fully embraced alternative facts.
jason.cre
Joined Aug 6, 2014
0 points
3 days ago
BatMasterson wrote:
Show now leaving Utah altogether.... sltrib.com/home/4952414-155/ou...

I'm sad to hear that the asshat Utah calls a governor has decided not to work with the outdoor industry. Unfortunately, I suspect it will not only be their loss, but our loss too. For the state of public lands in Utah, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. When is the next election? Perhaps if we can get hunters and fishers on board with us, we can vote another person into office.
eli poss
From Durango, Co
Joined May 9, 2014
131 points
2 days ago
Well - interestingly, the outdoor industry coalesced around the Bears Ears and the Grand Staircase Escalante NM issues in UT. Apparently Governor Herbert does not fully grasp our overwhelming financial contribution to his economy. I therefore believe a full boycott of Utah's outdoor resources should occur in this season. Climbers, mountain bikers, paddlers, hunters, hikers, guide companies, anglers should all take their money to CO NM,AZ,NV,CA this season. Write letters to the Governor and let him know you intend to recreate elsewhere and spend your money at out of state gear stores. It seems unfair to the merchants and guide companies but they will all be out of business if we let our public lands be controlled by oil, gas and mineral extractors. Many of you are probably equally aware of the bill passed in the house to disallow public comment on BLM land use/management. Even my conservative friends are having a problem with that one.

H.J. Res 44 basically does this "The House’s Congressional Review Act (CRA) resolution, which passed 234–186, will force BLM to revert to its 1983 planning process, which does not include comments from the public until late in the process. And despite the clear demand for improvements, under the CRA, the agency will not be allowed to update its land use planning process without congressional approval."
craggy
Joined Sep 12, 2011
0 points
2 days ago
excellent. Tim Lutz
Joined Aug 9, 2012
0 points
2 days ago
I live in one of the most conservative counties in UT and in the middle of the Grand Staircase. My take is the the world we live in turns on 5 issues. Power, Money, Kids, Love, and Religion (not necessarily in that order). In this state it seems that Religion will "trump" the other four most of the time and the religion culture here promotes falling in line with your leaders as well as stifling decent. If the church led state wants control of that corner of UT (presumably to control the resources), then who are "we gentiles" (at least for the most part), to buck the established system? It would seem that only a really big loss of Money and a threat to Power would/could raise eyebrows at the capital. Trouble is, Power will not be threatened by the vote when the majority of the populous will be falling in line with their leaders. So we must do what we can, when we can, and compromise where we can. We certainly are not going to out reproduce the Mormons (thus gaining the Power of the majority vote) in their current culture. Roy Suggett
Joined Jul 20, 2009
6,085 points
Administrator
2 days ago
craggy wrote:
The House’s Congressional Review Act (CRA) resolution


I was reading up on this Act and its a REALLY scary bit of legislation... I think most of the damage will be done using this and once it's done it cant be undone easily if at all.
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,157 points
2 days ago
Agree! Action will need to be monitored closely. Interested parties can sign up to receive updates by email at congress.gov. Before debate ensues, it will be best if everyone can write their Congressman to ask that it be stopped. Failing that, the next action will be in the Senate. Thanks for reading the bill's text. Please pass the info along through all social media you utilize. craggy
Joined Sep 12, 2011
0 points
2 days ago
John Barritt wrote:
No need to cuss Admin. As for idiotic positions, we don't have flying cars, and never will. We will never be able to mine in space even if we can develop "star trek" type speed. The distances are too great, AND the problems of being able to get mined materials back down to the planet SAFELY in any quantity is impossible. If you could though, increasing the mass of the planet by bringing extraterrestrial materials back would eventually change the earths gravity and orbit. As for using coal in 200 years, if the US goes entirely hydro-electric, solar or wind for our power by then China and the rest of the world will still be using fossil fuels. I'm a realist, not an idiot. JB


Ok, let me put this plain and simple.

1) we will have flying cars but they will most likely be in the form of drones

2) we will be mining space and it will be done by robots and we will and can bring materials down to earth just like we do astronauts and space shuttles and if you honestly believe we will bring enough material to earth to change its gravity you don't have the slightest idea of the materials we are looking for in space

3) If the US goes fossil free everyone else will too
Tylerpratt
From Litchfield, Connecticut
Joined Feb 25, 2016
0 points
2 days ago
Thanks to all of you who are defending Bears Ears and the decision to move the OR show. Reading through this entire thread, it is disheartening to see just how much cynicism is out there.

I have a number of friends who are climbers and also Trump supporters. I have no problem calling them hypocrites, and I do think that each and every person who voted Trump is absolutely deplorable...Love you!

One thing I see in my debates with them and also here, is how quickly conservatives put ideology before reason. Scary times indeed.
Alex Bury
From Ojai, CA
Joined Jun 29, 2012
1,840 points
2 days ago
Alex Bury wrote:
how quickly conservatives put ideology before reason. Scary times indeed.


and the Red party before 240 years of checks and balances, aka: democracy
Tim Lutz
Joined Aug 9, 2012
0 points
2 days ago
Tylerpratt wrote:
Ok, let me put this plain and simple. 1) we will have flying cars but they will most likely be in the form of drones 2) we will be mining space and it will be done by robots and we will and can bring materials down to earth just like we do astronauts and space shuttles and if you honestly believe we will bring enough material to earth to change its gravity you don't have the slightest idea of the materials we are looking for in space 3) If the US goes fossil free everyone else will too
Too plain, too simple.

1. No we won't, it would be impossible to control traffic and accidents and transport of people and cargo by using large drones would require massive amounts of raw materials for the batteries. Won't happen.

2.No we won't, the cost of mining space will always outweigh the value of whatever you could bring back. (In context, years of bringing large quantities of metals or other minerals to the planet from space could change the specific gravity if it were ever possible)

3.Never make the mistake of thinking the rest of the world thinks like we do. They don't. JB
John Barritt
From OKC
Joined Oct 13, 2016
859 points
2 days ago
Alex Bury wrote:
Thanks to all of you who are defending Bears Ears and the decision to move the OR show. Reading through this entire thread, it is disheartening to see just how much cynicism is out there. I have a number of friends who are climbers and also Trump supporters. I have no problem calling them hypocrites, and I do think that each and every person who voted Trump is absolutely deplorable...Love you! One thing I see in my debates with them and also here, is how quickly conservatives put ideology before reason. Scary times indeed.
Thanks for jumping in on page 12 with some anti Trump rhetoric. People are just going to be cynical when a company says they "want" to make clothing in the US there's just no factories here, especially when they have massive enough profits to open their own factories and create jobs but they don't. Why?

I wonder if the people overseas doing Patagonia's sewing get to surf too?

No one is against Bears ears here, but it's good to question a corporation's motives and have ideology from time to time, otherwise you run the risk of becoming sheep.

JB
John Barritt
From OKC
Joined Oct 13, 2016
859 points
2 days ago
John,
I would love any reasoning and/or rationale for why you seem so convinced about your proposed future scenario. You know, the one where any sort of progress ceases to exist.
Also, regarding Patagonia's work place and worker policies, it would behoove you to actually research what it is they do before making claims. I'm sure the workers don't surf, but the factories do have oversight for workers rights and sustainability.
Lastly, it is not just Patagonia pulling out of the OR show. A number of other highly reputable companies also pulled out. I would be pretty surprised if they had all colluded to strategically boost their marketability by boycotting a show in a highly controversial locale.
Being skeptical is one thing, blatantly ignoring truth as well as cause and effect is entirely different...
inc.com/anna-hensel/patagonia-...
projectjust.com/brand_patagoni...
simplyput
Joined Nov 30, 2013
0 points
2 days ago
simplyput wrote:
Being skeptical is one thing, blatantly ignoring truth as well as cause and effect is entirely different...


makes you a sheep #irony
Tim Lutz
Joined Aug 9, 2012
0 points
2 days ago
Tim Lutz wrote:
makes you a sheep #irony


m.youtube.com/watch?v=f84J81C0...
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
40 points
2 days ago
simplyput wrote:
John, I would love any reasoning and/or rationale for why you seem so convinced about your proposed future scenario. You know, the one where any sort of progress ceases to exist. Also, regarding Patagonia's work place and worker policies, it would behoove you to actually research what it is they do before making claims. I'm sure the workers don't surf, but the factories do have oversight for workers rights and sustainability. Lastly, it is not just Patagonia pulling out of the OR show. A number of other highly reputable companies also pulled out. I would be pretty surprised if they had all colluded to strategically boost their marketability by boycotting a show in a highly controversial locale. Being skeptical is one thing, blatantly ignoring truth as well as cause and effect is entirely different... inc.com/anna-hensel/patagonia-... projectjust.com/brand_patagoni...
I didn't say progress would cease, please don't put words in my mouth. I said no flying cars, and no space mining. And I stated why I think that. How far is the closest planet we might mine? How long is a round trip there? etc. etc.

As for researching Patagonia's workplace policies the only thing you have to go on is what Patagonia tells you. How about you research it, prove me wrong please.

Just don't quote Patagonia's website as proof.

Start by trying to get a list of the overseas factories where they sew.
The factories where their nylon is made.
The shipping lines they use.
Their total petroleum usage stats, just for the nylon made.
etc. etc.

They say don't buy our stuff, sales soar
They say we're giving black Friday profit away, sales soar.

Forgive my cynicism. JB


John Barritt
From OKC
Joined Oct 13, 2016
859 points
2 days ago
Speaking of sheep voormi.com

They pass on the trade shows to redirect that money into manufacturing here in the US. Very hard to question there motives as a company.
s.price
From PS,CO
Joined Dec 1, 2010
1,018 points


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