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old men grumbing about j tree, bad jokes,and other related matters
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Nov 2, 2015
Anyone know what happened at j tree sunday evening? We saw th flight for life landed right nexr to double cross. matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
160 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: waking up in jtree
If its the one I saw from the Hidden Valley Day lot:

A guy took about a 12 foot ground fall leading Left Ski. He walked out limping with some friends, might have been a broken ankle.
caro toca roca
From Altadena, CA
Joined Mar 29, 2015
11 points
Nov 2, 2015
Hard to believe they would helicopter someone out for an ankle injury (when it is right next to a road), but I suppose it's possible. FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Russ
I heard the second bolt on Double Cross pulled on a guy going for his AMGA Lead Climbing Instructor part B certificate. Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,664 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
Caro left us wrote:
A guy took about a 12 foot ground fall leading Left Ski. He walked out limping with some friends, might have been a broken ankle.



Was he wearing a helmet?


Fall over 10 feet?


If the answer is NO and YES to these, its NPS protocol to sieze you and take you to the nearest EMERGENCY ROOM, via the MOST EXPENSIVE METHOD. No mater what YOU say..... or wish


Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points
Nov 2, 2015
Guy Keesee wrote:
Was he wearing a helmet? Fall over 10 feet? If the answer is NO and YES to these, its NPS protocol to sieze you and take you to the nearest EMERGENCY ROOM, via the MOST EXPENSIVE METHOD. No mater what YOU say..... or wish

Maybe because a lot of people have died from those kind of incidents several hours later? They may not even know they hit their head. Recall Natasha Richardson, Liam Neeson's deceased wife. From the Wiki entry:

"On 16 March 2009, Richardson sustained a head injury when she fell while taking a beginner skiing lesson at the Mont Tremblant Resort in Mont-Tremblant, Quebec, Canada about 80 miles (130 km) from Montreal. The injury was followed by a lucid interval, when Richardson seemed to be fine and was able to talk and act normally. The paramedics and an ambulance which initially responded to the accident were told they were not needed and left. Refusing medical attention twice, she returned to her hotel room and about three hours later was taken to a local hospital in Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts after complaining of a headache. She was transferred from there by ambulance to Hôpital du Sacré-Cœur, Montreal, in critical condition and was admitted about seven hours after the fall.[22][23] The following day, she was flown to Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, where she died on 18 March at the age of 45.[24][25] An autopsy conducted by the New York City Medical Examiners Office on 19 March revealed the cause of death was an "epidural hematoma due to blunt impact to the head", and her death was ruled an accident
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
64 points
Nov 2, 2015
After the helicopter left I drove out of the park and saw a subaru outback that looked like it had been in a bad accident being loaded into a tow truck. So maybe it was a car accident? Bryson Smith
From Santa Cruz, California
Joined Oct 26, 2014
1 points
Administrator
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: OMG!
colonel mustard in the library Muscrat
Joined Oct 27, 2011
3,553 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Bottom of the bottle
A friend of mine was helping his GF hike out after she took a fall and broke her ankle. On the way out, JOSAR showed up, having been called without my friends knowledge. His intention was to drive to the ER close to home...

The JOSAR BOYS started to interrogate the couple and having found out that she was not wearing a helmet and fell greater than 10 feet..... they shoved my friend aside and said: "ITs PROTOCOL WE TAKE OVER..!!!!!!!"

No Problem you say....

Well my friend was knocked to the ground and cuffed when he protested... and they hauled him off like a common criminal.

His GF was put on a life flight to Palm Springs, while on the flight they gave her some sort of drug- that she was allergic to- when the chopper arrived in PS she was not breathing - lucky they got that started again - and she spent like 14 days recovering from what they did to her.

To put cream on top.... they sent him a bill for the ride. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$




Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
363 points
Nov 2, 2015
Guy Keesee wrote:
Was he wearing a helmet? Fall over 10 feet? If the answer is NO and YES to these, its NPS protocol to sieze you and take you to the nearest EMERGENCY ROOM, via the MOST EXPENSIVE METHOD. No mater what YOU say..... or wish


Guy-

Unless you are unconscious, you ALWAYS have the right to refuse medical care (with limited exceptions if you are deemed a danger to self or others). That said, most people with medical training (including me) would say that someone who fell over 10 feet without a helmet should be heading to the ER fast. Maybe not helicopter fast, but definitely lights-and-sirens fast.
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
17 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Yes
I fell from left ski track back in 2012 and broke my ankle. You need a very specific piece of pro to adequately protect the first 20 feet. I believe its a 2.5 camalot. My number 2 ripped out like it wasn't even there. I had a helmet on, and fell about 17 feet, breaking my ankle. I hobbled to my car with my buddy and he drove me to the hospital. grog m aka Greg McKee
Joined Aug 29, 2012
115 points
Nov 2, 2015
What James said...There are protocols when EMS uses flight ambulances. And if the patient is alert and oriented they can ALWAYS deny care. Even if they are having a heart attack. Implied consent only applies when a person is incopacitated. 5150 applies when there's a danger to self or others or failure to thrive. Doesn't sound like that applies to this. I can't imagine a flight nurse/medic would shove anyone and literally kidnap a patient. But if that happened that's grounds for dismissals and large lawsuits. SRB25
From Woodside, ca
Joined Nov 11, 2014
5 points
Nov 2, 2015
on New yrs day this yr I fell while scrambling the bong due to it being filled with ice, not a great idea, i know. The park rangers tried calling ambulance but i told them no its not needed and had my friend drive my to the ER. They never threatened to arrest or make me take an ambulance, its 100% the choice of the injured person. Tyler Lomprey
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Jul 9, 2013
5 points
Nov 2, 2015
Hey Russ. I wasn't aware there was a second or first bolt on Double Cross. Jon Hartmann
From Ojai, CA
Joined Feb 3, 2009
1,328 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Russ
Jon Hartmann wrote:
Hey Russ. I wasn't aware there was a second or first bolt on Double Cross.


It was the spinner. The first and 3rd bolts are good.
Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,664 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: practice cliffs
happy for the change in subject to better reflect the subject matter of this thread.... brian burke
From the road
Joined Nov 2, 2013
116 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: waking up in jtree
Guy Keesee wrote:
Was he wearing a helmet? Fall over 10 feet? If the answer is NO and YES to these, its NPS protocol to sieze you and take you to the nearest EMERGENCY ROOM, via the MOST EXPENSIVE METHOD. No mater what YOU say..... or wish



not wearing a helmet and about 10-12 feet.
caro toca roca
From Altadena, CA
Joined Mar 29, 2015
11 points
Nov 2, 2015
Man. I climbed Double Cross last year and I have to say I'm happy for the new bolts. Those cams are so heavy and hard to place. Besides, if you put the cams in the crack then they're in the way of your feet while you're climbing and it's way way safer. I'm glad the old climbing dinosaurs are finally getting with the times. I can't wait to see more cracks being bolted in JTree. I look forward to the day when I get to come into the park with nothing but a set of draws and a grigri. Jon Hartmann
From Ojai, CA
Joined Feb 3, 2009
1,328 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Me redpointing Power Series. This route is amazing...
^^^ draws are too heavy. Permadraws are the jam. C. Archibald
Joined Apr 15, 2012
781 points
Nov 2, 2015
One step at a time dude. We'll get there. God willing. Jon Hartmann
From Ojai, CA
Joined Feb 3, 2009
1,328 points
Nov 2, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Cold day at Smug's
Jon Hartmann wrote:
One step at a time dude. We'll get there. God willing.

SHTZZ PANTZ IN RAGE!!!11!11!
csproul
From Davis, CA
Joined Dec 3, 2009
355 points
Nov 3, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Jtree
matt c. wrote:
Anyone know what happened at j tree sunday evening? We saw th flight for life landed right nexr to double cross.


Since you said Sunday evening, I can tell you exactly what happened. I was on Mike's books about 15 feet up, trying for a spot to place pro. While doing the traverse to the right, into the dihedral, I stemmed my right foot over to the right. I lost my balance, almost recovered it and my right foot peeled. From there, gravity took over. I pushed out to clear the rocks and such below me. I turned to my left and landed on my right side. Climber nurses magically appeared and were very helpful, as were the rangers, emts, sheriff, mercy flight folks etc. Following protocol, they flew me to desert regional medica trauma center. I am ok, just banged up with 2 fractures in my right foot and a "tiny" fracture in my neck. Helmets save lives. Wear yours. Because I was strapped to a back board, I couldn't see where I was. My wife said the chopper I was in landed in the road in front of double cross.
The whole thing still seems like a dream to me. Eventually, reality will set in and it will hit me.

Climb on!
Jim Mitch
From Joshua Tree, CA.
Joined Jun 26, 2012
15 points
Nov 3, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Triple Direct on El Capitan
Anyone should be able to refuse care no matter how far they fell as long as they are with it mentally. Guy, what happened to your friend is criminal in my opinion and JOSAR should be held responsible for their actions. That is kidnapping no matter how high the person fell from. I've been a paramedic for 30 years for the LAFD, if a person is mentally competent they can sign their life away if they choose. We absolutely try and talk them into going to the hospital but we cannot force them. Kevin Mokracek
From Burbank
Joined Apr 5, 2012
192 points
Nov 3, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Seize the day
Jim Mitch wrote:
Since you said Sunday evening, I can tell you exactly what happened. I was on Mike's books about 15 feet up, trying for a spot to place pro. While doing the traverse to the right, into the dihedral, I stemmed my right foot over to the right. I lost my balance, almost recovered it and my right foot peeled. From there, gravity took over. I pushed out to clear the rocks and such below me. I turned to my left and landed on my right side. Climber nurses magically appeared and were very helpful, as were the rangers, emts, sheriff, mercy flight folks etc. Following protocol, they flew me to desert regional medica trauma center. I am ok, just banged up with 2 fractures in my right foot and a "tiny" fracture in my neck. Helmets save lives. Wear yours. Because I was strapped to a back board, I couldn't see where I was. My wife said the chopper I was in landed in the road in front of double cross. The whole thing still seems like a dream to me. Eventually, reality will set in and it will hit me. Climb on!


Glad to hear you're doing well buddy!!! I fell/whipped 50ft, unhelmeted and got busted up really damn bad. Skull fracture, broken cervical neck vertebrae and left scapula. PLEASE keep an eye and follow up on the "tiny" fracture in your neck. While my neck fracture was somewhat minor, my vertebrae was busted up enough to have slid out of alignment toward my spinal column and could've caused paralysis had I not followed up with an x-ray and got it fused up. I was wearing a Miami J brace for 3 months 24/7 before the 2nd x-ray when they told me fusion was imminent! If it's in your cervical part of you neck...WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK! Climb on!(with a helmet)
ColinW
From San Diego, CA
Joined Sep 17, 2014
71 points
Nov 3, 2015
Glad to hear your ok! Heal up soon. matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
160 points
Nov 3, 2015
Jim- glad you're OK, best wishes for your recovery and hope you get back on the rock soon. Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
17 points


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