Mammut Smart Alpine

Anyone use this in guide mode and for rapping. If so, does it beat out atc guide? I have used the smart (non alpine version) and like the way it holds falls. Just curious about its multi-pitch qualities, thanks.

Dave

Mammut Alpine Smart Review

The alpine smart is all I use now, for personal use and guiding. I bought one just a few weeks before 10 days at red rocks and discovered what I consider to be it;s only draw back in that when you have the weight of two ropes on rappel, it can be a bitch to rap on as you have to lift the handle up in order to unweight the device. I got used to it after a few days but now will take my B-52 along to rap with if we are doing double rope raps. Beside that, this device performs much better than any of the non-mechanical devices out there today. Feeds out and takes in slack like a breeze, raps smoothly with single ropes, locks up tight when the leader falls, and locks up on rappel which I think is a great feature of this. Should the belayer become injured or knocked unconscious the device will lock up. Plenty of better reviews out there, but I really like this device...and I didn't want to. Very lightweight to rack up as well.

You can flip it over and use it at a normal (non-auto-braking) device while rapping. I tried it last time out and it was just fine. Check out the Mammut webpage for details.

Awkward rappelling was my only complaint, so I give it two thumbs up now. It does everything an ATC Guide does, and more, with only a small weight penalty.

Auto-X Fil wrote:You can flip it over and use it at a normal (non-auto-braking) device while rapping. I tried it last time out and it was just fine. Check out the Mammut webpage for details. Awkward rappelling was my only complaint, so I give it two thumbs up now. It does everything an ATC Guide does, and more, with only a small weight penalty.

Hadn't read that before, great suggestion.

Auto-X Fil wrote:You can flip it over and use it at a normal (non-auto-braking) device while rapping. I tried it last time out and it was just fine.

Yep, I finally wised up and did the same thing but I was unsure if Mammut supported the device being used like that. It was much easier and seemed just as safe as any other device I have used. Haven't checked out the Mammut site recently.

Two thumbs up from me as well! Very versitile piece of equipment.

Auto-X Fil wrote:You can flip it over and use it at a normal (non-auto-braking) device while rapping. I tried it last time out and it was just fine. Check out the Mammut webpage for details. Awkward rappelling was my only complaint, so I give it two thumbs up now. It does everything an ATC Guide does, and more, with only a small weight penalty.

Sweet! That fixes my one gripe with the thing. I'll have to try that next time I have a chance to get out.

Auto-X Fil wrote:You can flip it over and use it at a normal (non-auto-braking) device while rapping. I tried it last time out and it was just fine. Check out the Mammut webpage for details. Awkward rappelling was my only complaint, so I give it two thumbs up now. It does everything an ATC Guide does, and more, with only a small weight penalty.

Link: mammut.ch/images/Smart+Alpi…

It's on page 18.

Sweet. As others have said, this fixes my one gripe with this device.

Used it for a bit and stopped.

- Not as versatile on multipitch considering you CANNOT use a small locking biner or double non-locking with it

- It really sucks to lower a second in guide mode, granted every assisted device like this atcguide,reverso, etc sucks, but I found that using your hand was extremely painful as it bit into the heel of your hand (this is mammuts method 1 of lowering a second) and using your foot is the same difficulty as it would be on any assisted device (mammuts method 2 of lowering a second)

- Using it in braking rap mode was horrible if you have any weight and/or distance to go (I had wanted to use this to replace my shunt when rapping with pigs on bigwall climbs)painful and tiring. Flip it over for the nonbraking rap and you might as well be using an atcguide, reverse, etc.

dbarton ...

its all i use now ... for rock anyways

as to rapping there are three ways to help

- use it with thinner (9.8 and below) ropes

- use it with a DMM Boa Biner which has a huge honking radius ... i replaced a BD rocklock with this and it makes a huge difference

- or use it in the lower friction method mentioned above

one LIMITATION in rapping is that you cant use very mismatched ropes for rapping ,,, ie no 7mm tag line and 9.8 lead line ... unless you set up for a single line rap and pull cord ... at least dead elephant doesnt recommend it ...

i rarely wrap with it flipped as the assisted locking on rap is one of the main reasons i bought it

note ... this thing IMO is better than a gri gri 2 ... at a lower price and lighter, and is more intuitive to use IMO

Thanks for the feedback. I think that the ability to flip this around and rap with it in non brake mode is very cool, gives you options. I think I will pull the trigger and get one.

I've got the Alpine version for use with 8.5mm half ropes. I like the idea of the assisted locking ability, which is more important when trying to control two skinny ropes independently. In fact, I have long believed that most belay devices do not provide enough friction to catch those rare but serious high fall-factor falls, and the Smart seems like a solution. But I'm unenthusiastic about it in general.

Belaying: perhaps this is just a matter of practice, but right now I can manage half ropes far better with an ATC type device. With the Smart, you have to use your non-brake hand to both pay out and take in strands as the leader moves, because the brake hand is immobilized by the need to pull the device away from the harness to unlock it. I can't pump slack to the leader for clipping as fast, and I can't simultaneously take in one strand while paying out the other as I can with an ATC.

A side-effect of the need for the non-braking hand to pump slack all by itself is the the rope absolutely has to be piled or stacked. If the rope is hanging down the cliff (this does sometimes happen accidentally if piled rope falls off a small ledge), then it becomes a struggle to pull the rope weight through the device with the non-braking hand and the leader is much more likely to be short-roped while clipping.

Another belaying concern is the behavior of the device for factor-2 falls. It seems to me as if the brake hand has to be in an extremely award position to provide locking in this case. Perhaps the device will lock anyway, but I'd hate to find out it doesn't... The cure is to start out with the hand on the lever in a palm-up position until the leader has clipped a reliable piece. (It seems to be a little-appreciated fact that ATC-type devices have the same problem and require a palm-up braking hand orientation to catch a factor-2 fall.)

Rappelling: I absolutely hate it. Jerky and tiring to hold the lever up. I really don't care about the auto-stop feature, which may not work anyway near the end of the rappel when there is very little rope weight (Mammut warns about this). Plus, the the device puts terrible kinks in my ropes, something that seems to be at least partially a feature of my ropes, since other people do not report the same thing. I hadn't tried reversing the device. If this solves the rappelling problem while providing sufficient friction, it would help me feel a lot better about using it in general.

There is another belay gadget on the horizon, the Alpine UP, supposedly due for release in February. climbingtechnology.it/en-US…. If you haven't already bought a Smart, I think I'd wait to see how the UP stacks up.

an update on the alpine smart ...

- this thing rocks for autoblock ... it pulls through rope WAY easier than a guide or reverso in that mode ....

- i picked up the one for double ropes .... i find it works fine on 8mm mammut phoenix

i use this thing almost exclusively on multi now where i use thinner ropes anyways and where rock fall is more of a concern

as to rapping ...i did the royal arches raps with it ... somewhere around 10 double length raps .... it worked just fine

Did they stop making this device ?

Looks like it. They have recently come out with the Smart 2.0 so I imagine an alpine smart 2.0 is not too far away. I have a nearly new alpine smart for sale if you’d like. PM me

I use it exclusively.  I have the single for the gym and double for outdoors, plus the skinny version for my 1/2 ropes.  Love it for rappeling, especially if you need to clean a route on rap.

i did see one analysis that the guide mode puts more friction in the system than other, similar, devices, but it works for for me.

Best device I own by far.