Making a rope anchor without twisting

Hi all I'm working on anchor building efficiency and I am trying a rope anchor like this:

Rope anchor

The issue I am having is that all the clove hitches cause twists in the rope while the instructional vid I watched didn't have nearly as much trouble. Am I tying them wrong and introducing an extra twist?

The picture doesn't really show much but the slack between the left piece and master point also twists a bit

Jon Frisby wrote:Hi all I'm working on anchor building efficiency and I am trying a rope anchor like this: The issue I am having is that all the clove hitches cause twists in the rope while the instructional vid I watched didn't have nearly as much trouble. Am I tying them wrong and introducing an extra twist?

My guess is that you are tying the cloves in the same direction, just tie each clove in the opposite direction of the one you previously tied and it will remove any twist that the first clove put in the rope.

I think you're right on the nose. Thanks!!!

ETA: just flipped the left and MP hitches and it's perfect now!

i've seen the video that teaches that way and i have found that it takes much longer than the way i learned and uses more gear. imo this is the best way to anchor with the rope using 3 pieces: rope anchor

for 4 pieces i would probably use the method in your photo adapted for 4 pieces

I think you need an 80 meter rope. So you have some left to climb with.

Eli do you have another link for that video?^ the one above doesn't wanna work for me.

climbinglife.com/instructio…

i forgot to mention, instead of cloving the pieces back to a locker on my belay loop like the video, i clove the line going to my tie-in to the masterpoint (or the shelf) after finishing the anchor. makes it easier to give myself slack if i need to move around on a big ledge ie to see my second

I'd think twice about visiting that site.

Infection

Yea I couldn't get on. Booted me

Get rid of the cloves, run the rope through all the biners and just tie a single knot on the master point.

Something like this (not the best example / picture but I guess it works). Assuming most likely the tail in the real world would stay hooked to you and you would only take it off and put it on the master point if your partner was hurt and you had to help him.

[trigger warning: cat lovers leave now.]
There are many ways to skin a cat.

Here's yet another variation on the theme in your quest for efficiency that uses fewer 'biners but more exotic knots:

youtube.com/watch?v=OJ8I6z-…

One of many methods - clove your first piece with a couple feet of extra slack between that and your tie-in. Tie a 'bunny ears' two-loop figure of 8 and clip the next two pieces, adjusting the size of the loops for the direction of pull. Tie a BigHonkin'Knot on a bight using both your tie-in and the rope running out of the bunny ears knot to make a master point in the direction of expected pull. Keep at least one carabiner in the master point loop since your tie-in now loads the back side of that knot.

My system

The loop in the slack for redirection point is optional---I rarely tie that.

The system is similar to the one on the climbinglife site, but is more efficient in that you don't have to estimate the lengths of any pieces that are tied later.

I've never had a a rope-kinking problem from the clove hitches.

Dumb question, but does anchoring with the rope only make sense when swapping leads? If there some chance the leader will be leading the next pitch, this anchor doesn't seem very appropriate. Correct? Thanks ... and yes, I know, yer gonna die ...

Fan Z. wrote:Dumb question, but does anchoring with the rope only make sense when swapping leads? If there some chance the leader will be leading the next pitch, this anchor doesn't seem very appropriate. Correct? Thanks ... and yes, I know, yer gonna die ...

Yea, I would never do this type of anchor if you are leading back to back pitches. If you did you would have to both untie and switch the ends of the rope you are tied into or build a 2nd anchor with the 2nds end of the rope and than take down the first anchor etc.

By clipping free strand to "power point" with a biner, would that cause cross loading to biner being clipped into?

This was something I played around with. Kind of a hybrid of designs from rgold and bearbeeder.

Hybrid, with respect to rgold/bearbreeder designs.

rgold design:
rgold design

As Gregger Man mentions, there is more than one way. Good to see you working out the kinks, Jon Frisby... smart.

Fan Z. wrote:Dumb question, but does anchoring with the rope only make sense when swapping leads? If there some chance the leader will be leading the next pitch, this anchor doesn't seem very appropriate. Correct? Thanks ... and yes, I know, yer gonna die ...

Take a cordelette when not swinging, but it can be done with the rope. More of a p.i.t.a. though.

Fan Z. wrote:...does anchoring with the rope only make sense when swapping leads? If there some chance the leader will be leading the next pitch, this anchor doesn't seem very appropriate.

You mean not swapping leads, i.e. either guiding or leading in blocks. A cordelette is faster in this case, but only by a little if both party members are competent and the second carries four carabiners they can use to build their own rope anchor under the leader's. In a guiding situation or with a person who isn't knowlegeable and efficient, the cordelette is definitely the way to go.

JoeGariby wrote:By clipping free strand to "power point" with a biner, would that cause cross loading to biner being clipped into?

No, at least not if the clove to the free strand carabiner is adjusted so that the load coming from the free stand (which in the escape scenario would eventually have the incapacitated climber hanging on it) is really applied to the power point and not just anchor #4.

rgold wrote: You mean not swapping leads, i.e. either guiding or leading in blocks. A cordelette is faster in this case, but only by a little if both party members are competent and the second carries four carabiners they can use to build their own rope anchor under the leader's. In a guiding situation or with a person who isn't knowlegeable and efficient, the cordelette is definitely the way to go....

rgold, I think we're on the same page. I did mean to suggest/confirm that building a rope anchor per the systems discussed above would only make sense when swapping leads. I agree it does not make sense when guiding or leading in blocks with a less efficient second, as a cordelette would be faster in those scenarios.
Your comment, "You mean not swapping leads," initially confused me because I thought it was meant to respond to the first sentence of my original question, when in fact, I think you meant it as an alternate way to restate the scenario described in my second sentence "If there [is] some chance the leader [also] will be leading the next pitch, ..."

BigFeet, in your top picture what is the purpose of clipping the left strand into the top shelf of the anchor?