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Make Joshua Tree Great Again
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Feb 24, 2016
..downgrade the climbs to be more in line with red rocks...then i will feel better about myself. Jt Loco
Joined Oct 14, 2007
0 points
Feb 24, 2016
i always hear these comments, RR ratings are soft, jtree is sandbagged.

These two great areas are where i've spent my majority of climbing time.

I can think of a long list of lines out in RR whose grades and serious nature will have you strongly reconsider that place as a cupcake sport clip up.

Next time in RR; seek out a Paul Van Betten or Joe Herbst route.
Tyler Lomprey
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Jul 9, 2013
5 points
Feb 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
It is true that many of the ratings at Red Rock don't add up to the numbers given ("Soft").

It is also very true that many of the routes in Joshua Tree were given ratings that today are referred to as "Sandbagged".

In both cases, there are plenty of exceptions.
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Feb 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: On the steep sport wall on the back side of Echo C...
Does the grade of a climb really have anything to do with it's "greatness"?
Seems like there are great and not so great climbs with many variations in difficulty in many different locales.
NeilB
From Tehachapi, CA
Joined Apr 9, 2014
47 points
Feb 24, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
"Does the grade of a climb really have anything to do with it's "greatness"?"

When overinflated ego is involved it does.




Other than that, hell no it doesn't!
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Feb 29, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Moby Dick
Joshua Tree grades aren't sandbagged. They seem to be pretty in line with other awesome climbing spots like the valley. Just get out there and have fun. Christopher Rein
Joined Jul 29, 2014
27 points
Administrator
Mar 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: There's more than one use for an Ice Hammer. Lake ...
Isn't Open Book the standard 5.9? So go climb that and see how other 5.9s stack up to it. Chris Owen
From Big Bear Lake
Joined Jan 1, 2002
10,767 points
Mar 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
"Joshua Tree grades aren't sandbagged. They seem to be pretty in line with other awesome climbing spots like the valley"

Do a bit of research and you'll discover why.
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Mar 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Me at the good rest on Doggie Do
Tyler Lomprey wrote:
i always hear these comments, RR ratings are soft, jtree is sandbagged. These two great areas are where i've spent my majority of climbing time. I can think of a long list of lines out in RR whose grades and serious nature will have you strongly reconsider that place as a cupcake sport clip up. Next time in RR; seek out a Paul Van Betten or Joe Herbst route.



This.
Weston L
From Summerlin, NV
Joined Mar 14, 2010
890 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Moby Dick
Locker, I know that there was a lot of overlap around ascensionists and when major routes in those two places were established. My major point is that JTree ratings aren't sandbagged, since you should know what to expect compared to other major destinations in CA. Christopher Rein
Joined Jul 29, 2014
27 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
"My major point is that JTree ratings aren't sandbagged, since you should know what to expect compared to other major destinations in CA."



Why/how should people inherently KNOW what to expect, having never been to an area?

Most younger climbers I know are not aware of the "overlap" you speak of (and are correct about).



Someone that gym climbs or climbs places like The Alabama Hills (and similar), will be in for quite a surprise leading their first 5.8 at JT/Yos/Tahquitz/Suicide.


Not sure if I am making sense or not at the moment. I'll post and see what happens.

LOL!
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Lime Creek solo.  jcast photo.
I have only been to J-Tree once and felt the grades were right on par with many other areas I have climbed. Dappled Mare and The Overseer and sport routes in Siberia to name a few S.Mckinna
From Cañon City, CO
Joined Nov 13, 2010
1,819 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Moby Dick
That's fair, Locker. I totally agree that someone who is coming from the gym or somewhere like Red Rock (where I admittedly have not climbed) could be in for a surprise at the grades.

I guess I'm probably relying too much on personal experience and someone from somewhere else may feel jtree is relatively hard compared to their normal crag. The useful bit of my perspective probably only applies to people visiting Jtree and are used to trad in CA. My revised point could be for people who have climbed at places like Donner Summit, the Leap, Yosemite, Hulk, Needles, etc. I don't think Joshua Tree grades will feel sandbagged if that's what you expect.

Haha, sound reasonable?
Christopher Rein
Joined Jul 29, 2014
27 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
Christopher,

I do believe that we are basically on the same page.

So yes, sounds quite reasonable.
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Down low, before the Y and the Railroad couloirs s...
Locker wrote:
"My major point is that JTree ratings aren't sandbagged, since you should know what to expect compared to other major destinations in CA." Why/how should people inherently KNOW what to expect, having never been to an area? Most younger climbers I know are not aware of the "overlap" you speak of (and are correct about). Someone that gym climbs or climbs places like The Alabama Hills (and similar), will be in for quite a surprise leading their first 5.8 at JT/Yos/Tahquitz/Suicide. Not sure if I am making sense or not at the moment. I'll post and see what happens. LOL!

Sure, you are making sense. JT has mostly solid ratings.
On the other hand, JT has a huge number of climbs, established over a very long period of time. So, it seems expected to have larger rating variability than other areas.
Tom Nyce
From Flagstaff, AZ
Joined Nov 16, 2010
46 points
Mar 4, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Lime Creek solo.  jcast photo.
Not that Durango CO is a climbing destination but out there a + on the rating should strike fear in whoever chooses to climb those routes. That is how I approached the routes I climbed in J-tree and other destination climbing areas. Now that I am around Shelf Road I am constantly downgrading routes. If travelers want to fluff their egos they should climb Shelf:) S.Mckinna
From Cañon City, CO
Joined Nov 13, 2010
1,819 points
Mar 5, 2016
In my experience J-tree's sub 11 climbs seem to be sandbagged. My buddy's guidebook gave bouldering grades in V 0.something. I've never seem V 0 broken down in any other guidebook. Anyway most Josh climbers love to here that the grades are stiff. As the numbers get higher they begin to equal out. It's just a J-tree thing? jellybean
Joined Feb 3, 2013
0 points
Mar 10, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: ...
I got spit off a supposed 10c yesterday.

Knowing the FA'ist personally, yep, "Sandbagged".

LOL!









"Make Locker Great Again!!!"


and the secret word of the day is,

TOAST
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,541 points
Mar 10, 2016
Make Locker Great Again!!! Steve Williams
From Denver, CO
Joined Jul 15, 2005
201 points
Mar 14, 2016
Make Locker Toast Again! Rolf R
From BC
Joined Oct 23, 2011
136 points
Mar 14, 2016
HALLELUJAH MAKE LOCKER GREAT AGAIN!!! SRB25
From Woodside, ca
Joined Nov 11, 2014
5 points
Mar 14, 2016
in Jtree: Deflowered. vincent L.
From Redwood City
Joined Jan 1, 2005
605 points
Mar 16, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Rubicon direct "R" start (well the direc...
There are plenty of areas that some think are "sandbagged," but ratings don't necessarily transfer to different rock types and climbing styles. Almost any area that is considered old school can seem stiff. Perhaps new ratings are too generous? Regardless, many of the early routes in JT went up when there wasn't a real standard rating system and the people putting up lines didn't always have a reference point to go from. Also, these guys were doing it in sneakers or other crappy shoes, so props to them!

Anyway, grades are only a guideline; if you enjoy the route, who cares what it's rated.
T. Stark
From Los Angeles, CA
Joined May 25, 2006
158 points
Mar 17, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: On the steep sport wall on the back side of Echo C...
T. Stark wrote:
Anyway, grades are only a guideline; if you enjoy the route, who cares what it's rated.

+1
NeilB
From Tehachapi, CA
Joined Apr 9, 2014
47 points


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