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Lucid Dreaming 

YDS: 5.12c/d French: 7c Ewbanks: 28 UIAA: IX ZA: 28 British: E6 6b

Type:  Sport, 1 pitch
Original:  YDS: 5.12d French: 7c Ewbanks: 28 UIAA: IX ZA: 28 British: E6 6b [details]
FA: Vaino Kodas , Bob D'Antonio and Mary Zuvela
New Route: Yes
Page Views: 19,719
Submitted By: Ron Olsen on Nov 11, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (107)
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Nice climb.

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  • Description 

    Just right of Rama on the Plotinus Wall is a beautiful, overhanging arete. This is Lucid Dreaming. Stick-clip the first bolt then power up a series of tricky, strenuous moves to a stopper move near the the fourth bolt. Crank up over the bulge and follow the steep face up to a two-bolt anchor. Classic and hard arete climbing on beautiful granite.


    Eight bolts to a two-bolt anchor.

    Photos of Lucid Dreaming Slideshow Add Photo
    Rock Climbing Photo: Working the crux moves on Lucid.
    Working the crux moves on Lucid.
    Rock Climbing Photo: About to whip off the last hard move.  Photo court...
    About to whip off the last hard move. Photo court...
    Rock Climbing Photo: I don't think this is the best way for most people...
    I don't think this is the best way for most people...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Dan (Area Dan) moving through the crux on a beauti...
    Dan (Area Dan) moving through the crux on a beauti...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Eyeing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming. Photo by: ...
    Eyeing the crux move on Lucid Dreaming. Photo by: ...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Ridge dreaming of air well before the crux on LC; ...
    Ridge dreaming of air well before the crux on LC; ...
    Rock Climbing Photo: It is obvious, but critical, where your right hand...
    It is obvious, but critical, where your right hand...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Plotinus Wall, middle.
    BETA PHOTO: Plotinus Wall, middle.
    Rock Climbing Photo: Plotinus Wall, right side
    BETA PHOTO: Plotinus Wall, right side
    Rock Climbing Photo: Local climber and BRC trainer Curt MacNeill doing ...
    Local climber and BRC trainer Curt MacNeill doing ...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Brett Merlin about to enter the crux
    Brett Merlin about to enter the crux
    Rock Climbing Photo: Tony Bubb on the steep arete after the crux sectio...
    Tony Bubb on the steep arete after the crux sectio...
    Rock Climbing Photo: Tony Bubb in the crux section on 'Lucid Dreaming (...
    Tony Bubb in the crux section on 'Lucid Dreaming (...

    Comments on Lucid Dreaming Add Comment
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    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Dec 13, 2016
    By Anonymous Coward
    Dec 17, 2002

    Awesome route! Probably the best 12c in Boulder Canyon. Steep climbing leads to a reachy V4 crux. I would recommend a stiff boot! Good job Bob.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Apr 11, 2003

    Pretty solid for 12c but definitely not 13a. However I have a feeling a few holds are going to break on this, especially the potato chip flake below the third bolt, in which case the rating will definitely jump.
    By Fred Knapp
    Jul 7, 2003

    I'm a weak Boulder climber and i have to say it felt like 12b/c to me. A very high quality route, nonetheless.
    By Bill Wright
    Jul 11, 2003

    Man, I wish I were as weak as you guys...
    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Jul 23, 2003
    rating: 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b

    Nice climb, nice moves: too bad I didn't link some of them...Speaking of the holds maybe breaking off, The hold on the arete from which to clip the first bolt is cracked back behind it and scares me a little. Check it out and consider stick-clipping bolt #1.
    By jonah
    Sep 30, 2003

    I'm bummed that I'm moving from Boulder, because I won't have routes like this in my backyard anymore. Not too bummed to get away from all the mindless downgrading ego games, though. Yuck. This route is hands down one of the most aesthetic in the canyon, with some of the most fun climbing anywhere. And it is bolted just right for some good clean air when you blow the crux before clipping the 4th bolt. Great job, Bob!
    By Joe Collins
    Dec 8, 2003
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Awesome route. Hard to believe this line wasn't put up until recently. I found the hardest single move to be the long move from the jug at the 2nd bolt... this was a low percentage move for me. If you don't have a stick clip, you can clip the first bolt of Rama to remove the possibility of tumbling down to the creek.

    Not sure what to make of the downgrading going on here. I think people just like to give Bob a hard time. I've been able to finish 12c's at Boulder Canyon and Shelf really quickly of late, but this one will need a bit more work for me to link.
    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Dec 8, 2003
    rating: 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b

    I guess that just goes to show this route has a little something for everyone. I on-sighted to the 4th bolt and then hit a small hold up and left that spit me off 2 or 3 times.
    By Joe Collins
    Mar 17, 2004
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Just to be a grade geek here... comparing to other BC routes, I found this one a good bit harder to send than Animal Instinct, Amazing Face, and Hands of Destiny. I don't have much experience with 13a, but I would expect that to be a much longer-term project.
    By Jim Redo
    Jun 1, 2005
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    A good 12c
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 9, 2005

    This route is very similar to No Doze at the Sport Park (style and difficulty) - 12c by Boulder Canyon standards, could be a 12b in other areas I have visited. Very bouldery, so I can see where some folks could get shut down, but V6 if you look at it that way.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 10, 2005

    Doesn't V6 relate to 12d/13a?
    By Jim Collins
    Jun 23, 2005

    Rating--depends on height. Easier for taller people.Upper crux feels about like Hagan's Wall difficulty (V5), lower section feels about like Consideration difficulty (V4) -- so it is essentially a V4 with a good shake followed up by a V5. Which adds up to something in the range of 12d.
    By Jim Redo
    Jul 8, 2005
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I felt the route was 12c, and I'm short. The [Flying Beast] at Easter [Rock] is much harder and that gets the slash grade of easy 13a. Although the routes are a bit different in angle [The Flying Beast] is two boulder problems separated by a not so good of a rest as Lucid.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Jul 12, 2005

    To further the case for downrating you can dyno past the first crux from a jug to the shaky flake (height-dependent but easy V0+ move for most people). To my belayer's dismay, this seemed like the most efficient idea, and after seeing him thrutch on the layback to get to the same hold, I figured he was doing it wrong anyway - he should spend more time bouldering and learning dynamic movement because this is nothing short of a giveaway to anyone who boulders.
    By Anonymous Coward
    Oct 18, 2005

    As reference, ac's bouldering scale is off by about a number grade (V8=13a), but you will find many more climbers capable of climbing a V8 boulder problem than a 13a. I believe George's 12b grade may be a little stiff (that is most likley the result of being a solid 13 climber).
    By Chris Briley
    Aug 8, 2006

    13a for sure and a great one at that.
    By climberboy2
    Nov 20, 2006

    I am new to this area of grade (hard 12) and recently did another Dream Canyon route...The Caterer 12c. I was wondering how you would rate The Caterer (because nobody posts any comments on it) and how it compares to a route like Lucid Dreaming.

    Any comments?
    By Curt MacNeill
    From: Boulder, CO
    Mar 23, 2011

    Great route. Do it! Still remains an ultra-classic climb in the front range....
    By kiff
    Nov 23, 2011
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I think that there is no way this is 13a, especially when compared to routes like Big Kahuna in Rumney, which is considered tough 12d/13a, there is no move on Lucid harder than the crux moves on BK. This should "settle" at 12c/d.
    By Tyler Fox
    Nov 8, 2012

    Finished this today and cleaned my draws, blue BDs. Moved the other 4 draws to the 1st 4 bolts. Just a heads up.
    By Patrick Vernon
    From: Estes Park, CO
    Nov 21, 2013
    rating: 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    I wonder what Lucid Dreaming would be rated in Rifle?
    By Ken Cangi
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    May 18, 2014
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    Rock Climbing Photo: I removed the draws from Lucid Dreaming today. The...
    I removed the draws from Lucid Dreaming today. They're no longer safe. The one with the square-cut gouge in it was on the third bolt that people whip onto when they blow the lip. Several of the slings are showing visible sun and weather damage. Anyway, whoever owns them is welcome to call or message me, and I'm happy to get them back to you if you're local.
    By J. Albers
    From: Colorado
    Aug 15, 2014

    Why again is it Ken's responsibility to replace the fixed draws? Want a solution to your perceived problem? Bring your own gear, and clean it on the way back down. Personally I think it was awfully generous of Ken to take the time to take pics of the gear with an offer to return it.
    By Ken Cangi
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    Aug 17, 2014
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    I'm with J on this, Chris. The draws were sun-damaged, and the biners were worn enough to potentially damage rope running over them. The draw on the fourth bolt was curled up stiff into a 90 degree position from the sun-damage. If you can't see the danger potential from the pic, then I'm especially glad that I removed them before someone gets hurt.

    As for replacing them, it's not my responsibility, nor am I in the financial position to. LD is not a gym route, and no one asked the draw owner to equip the route and leave his or her draws there indefinitely. It was obviously done out of convenience, with little regard long-term wear.

    I took them down and posted that here so that the owner would know where to find them and the community would know not to hike up there expecting the route to be equipped. I even offered to deliver them within Boulder city limits. I felt (feel) that it was the responsible thing to do. Hopefully you can see it that way.

    By slim
    Aug 18, 2014

    Completely agree w/ JA and KCP.
    By Andy Hansen
    From: Longmont, Colorado
    Oct 5, 2014
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    There are currently no fixed draws on this route, and I did not find hanging the draws to be such a chore that this route should be equipped with permanent draws. Easy to hang the draws from good stances and good holds. I can see this pushing 13a for short folks and somewhere around hard 12 for tall folks. Either way, good movement, great holds, and although the climbing eases considerably after the crux, the climbing above the crux is still cerebral.
    By Blake Storey
    From: Boulder, CO
    Oct 19, 2014

    I hung a set of draws today on Lucid. They have a grey dogbone and black Omega biners. Also there are two blue BD QDs for the anchors. I fell and injured my foot while attempting the route and couldn't rescue the draws. I will be back in a few weeks to retrieve them when I'm better. If anyone cleans them before hand, please contact me. Thanks.
    By Curt MacNeill
    From: Boulder, CO
    Dec 28, 2014

    KCP, the draws taken down in May were mine. No big deal. I use to do the route a lot and just had them up for ease of climbing and not having to clean. I have actually donated several sets of draws over the years. I have thought about permanently equipping this route with some steel Climb Tech draws to the first 4 bolts which should last a long time, mainly to prevent having to climb the 5.10 to the top and not having to clean the route. Most pull through the crux, and once standing pull some slack and take the whip. Maybe someday I will get around to it. Good to always inspect and pull garbage draws from routes though, so thank you. There are plenty bad ones out there....
    By adam brink
    From: Boulder, CO
    Dec 29, 2014
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    Hi Curt,

    Please do not permanently equip this route (or any other, for that matter). Perma-draws are an eyesore and totally unnecessary for this route. Lucid is easy to clean, and this is a beautiful canyon that should not be blemished by needless permanent draws. Thank you for considering the natural beauty of the area over the minute of effort it takes to clean the route.
    By Jacob Neathawk
    From: Nederland, CO
    Dec 30, 2014

    Equipping the route with Climb Tech type draws will not be permanent. All you need is a wrench to undo the quicklink. This route has had standard aluminum draws hanging on it for the past few seasons which have deteriorated fairly rapidly. I'm all for hanging a few steel Climb Tech draws on this route, they will be safer, and in my opinion look better than a bunch of mismatched B-team draws with potentially dangerous, sharp grooves worn in them.
    By J. Albers
    From: Colorado
    Dec 30, 2014

    I'm with Adam 100% on this, i.e. please don't add perma-draws, and Jacob, arguing that draws are not permanent because you can take them off with a wrench is a semantic distinction. IMHO Boulder Canyon routes are a very bad venue for permanent hardware...especially on a wall where there are already quasi-access issues. Plus, there just isn't a need, because it is super easy to clean the routes here.
    By Ken Cangi
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    Jan 3, 2015
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    Not going to mince words in saying that I oppose permadraws on a route like LD. Hanging draws on this rig is a breeze. I've done it several times. Moreover, having permadraws prohibits the ability of hanging draws for a traditional onsight, which still matters to some climbers. Convenience draws are best suited for gyms and steep, dry, cave-routes which are otherwise a major undertaking to equip. I own expensive Petzl Spirits for a reason, and I don't want to be forced into using permadraws because someone else wants them there for training-route convenience.
    By Steve Annecone
    From: boulder
    Jan 3, 2015

    Agree completely with Adam and KCP, no perma-draws here, please.
    By Joseph Crotty
    From: Broomfield, CO
    Nov 28, 2016
    rating: 5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b

    Anchor location on this route has always been a bit baffling which is shared w/ The Scientist and Rama. Probably the case of the FA making due w/ an anchor on a previously established route to make things "easy." However, in my opinion the anchor should be right around bolt six which would make cleaning on lower super easy. The terrain above bolt five is at best 5.9, and nobody who sends the crux and clips bolt five is ever falling off anywhere higher. In addition, the terrain after the crux is ho-hum.

    I don't think this climb is a candidate for permanent draws. However, do bring a stick clip for bolt one as it's too risky otherwise.
    By Ken Cangi
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    Dec 13, 2016
    rating: 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b

    That's a tough one, Joe. My initial thought about the route was that the top half was wasted mileage, although I came to see it as a fun cool-down after the business. Cleaning the pitch is pretty simple, and I don't think moving the anchors over will make cleaning the overhanging section much easier.

    The route is a well established classic, which has been done too many times now to change it, IMO.

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