Light belayer but no ground anchor, how?

What is the set up/equipment needed if the belayer (my son) is less than half my weight and there are no ground anchor points around to attach him to?

Basically I want to lead climb up so I can set up a top rope.

Most people have recommended against having children belay adults in previous forum posts. Of course it is up to you as the parent to make that call. I am excited for the day my sons and daughter can belay me, but patience is the key. Ask other adults to belay you at the crag.

If you do, put weight on the ground, sling to a locker on child harness BELAY LOOP. This keeps all the forces on that one point instead of pinching the harness if clipped to a haul loop.

How much do each of you weigh?

You could always attach weight to him. I think they use bags of sand at my gym for that reason.

Attaching weight to the child will make their body support >50% of their body weight while also being accelerated upwards in the case of a fall. I would not sandbag my children.

Maybe concrete blocks on their boots, mafia style? No, that's not good.

Why didn't I think of that, asking someone else (adult) to belay me, doh!

He weighs around 60lb (12yrs) and I'm 140lb.

There are some harder routes that do have a ground anchor bolt so when he graduates to these I'll make sure I anchor him using the belay loop.

I have no problem him belaying. I have a woodie and massive tree in the backyard so we've got plenty of opportunity to practice without putting anyone in danger.

The sandbag idea would work too but I'm too lazy to lug it to the cliff.

You should have them belay a peer of similar weight with you grabbing the rope as a backup until they are an adult. When all parties (and the peer's parents) approve, they can belay each other.

I wouldn't have him belay you until 120ish lbs. Other climbers are kind, and should help you with the belay. When done, you may need another belay to clean the route if there aren't permadraws at the anchor, etc.

We vacation as a fam to climbing and backpacking destinations. My 10yr old son needs an inspiring climbing partner. PM me to team up soon. Hoping for Yellowstone region this August, always open to suggestion.

Seriously have to question. the judgement call here. Ground anchors are an inappropriate solution to this problem. Find another adult, putting a child in that situation is asking for serious trouble, especially considering he's not even half your weight.

Wow the safety police up in here.

But on the other hand we have Shane "I need 4 redundant adjustable tethers to clean an anchor"...

Not sure whose side to take

Meat anchor. Find a nice homeless guy then buy him lunch.

I'd like to think a 12 y/o would have the whits about him to give a belay.

If you're really nervous just give the kid a Gri. :o

Time to go on a diet. I weighed as much you do now when I was 12 (early bloomer I guess), and now I weigh as much as the both of ya!

Ok, I'm going to take the bait.

What's the issue with a 12yr old belaying someone if there is a ground anchor?

Our local gyms permit belaying at 12 using grigri. I don't see the difference.

Shane, the local gym is prob letting 12yr olds belay other kids with similar weights ON TOPROPE and with parental permission. I still wouldn't want to have my son belayed or belay until I saw lots of scenarios with me holding the rope as backup. That is their call. It doesn't happen at any local gym here.

You are talking about your son belaying you on SPORT LEAD while you climb to set the top rope for him to climb. Have you caught anyone near or above your weight on a sport climb? Pick the biggest person at the gym, have them take a big lead fall as they are clipping the next bolt.

I would free climb it with the rope dragging behind me before having my son belay me in two years when he is 12. Maybe in 6 years when he is 16.

Your kid, your call, your life.

Oh my evolution, it is the same PAS GriGri Shane! Take some time and climb with others who have more experience. Next, read lots and apply knowledge.

Yeah, I have thought of that, ie lead vs top rope. In reality I will go with option one, adult belaying. Just wanted to hear others opinions.

Shane1234,

You may not have to haul 50-60 lbs of sandbangs in, but you will definitely have to fill a pack with 50-60 lbs of rocks at the belay station *and* be able to be sure that your kid is wearing it until you are safely back on the ground.

It's probably just going to be more fun for your kid *and for you* to find climbing partners with more comparable sizes given the goal you stated. With such a big weight disparity, you are introducing extra risk to a partner who, at age 12, is not yet fully capable of understanding and consenting to that increased risk.

Come on guys. This is some REALLY bad advice in this thread.

I have seen 12 year olds being competent belayers. Christ, I did it in high school at 14 years old after 20 minutes of lessons.

Many parents trust their 12 year olds to drive, to shoot, to operate power tools. Belaying is not beyond their ability.

Weight difference can be readily addressed by attaching weight via a sling to the carabiner or belay loop. Grip strength and catching ability is another concern but that can be address by appropriate choices of belay devices.

Let the parent make the choices. There are plenty of options that can assist.

this is why the safety police came out. The OP doesn't see the difference between a TR belay in the gym with a floor Daisy and a lead belay on a sport/trad route. Ifor you don't see the difference in consequence and risk immediately, you also don't have the knowledge to realize how dangerous the situation could be for your own child. Just find am adult who can give you a lead belay.

patto wrote:Come on guys. This is some REALLY bad advice in this thread. I have seen 12 year olds being competent belayers. Christ, I did it in high school at 14 years old after 20 minutes of lessons. Many parents trust their 12 year olds to drive, to shoot, to operate power tools. Belaying is not beyond their ability. Weight difference can be readily addressed by attaching weight via a sling to the carabiner or belay loop. Grip strength and catching ability is another concern but that can be address by appropriate choices of belay devices. Let the parent make the choices. There are plenty of options that can assist.

the thing here is not whether a kid can belay. it is whether the adult in the situation understands what he is asking the kid to do and can make it acceptably safe for them. the OPrem clearly does not know how to do this. a competent climber could surely make this work, but when Shane1234 admits he didn't think about the difference between TR in the gym and lead outside or that he could just find another adult, it is also clear he hasn't considered the actual risk he is exposing his kid and himself to in this situation.

JoeCrawford wrote:but when Shane1234 admits he didn't think about the difference between TR in the gym and lead outside or that he could just find another adult

I think you need to re-read the thread and learn to understand sarcasm.

I once saw a ~12yr-old belaying his father on something hard at the Nears. The kid was obviously terrified. I told myself then and there that I wouldn't be that guy.

A grigri will not solve the problem:

this accident shows children using a grigri can drop their parents

So, in addition to the physical safety aspects, consider the psychological strain of (perhaps literally) having a parent's blood (or worse) on their (rope-burned) hands.

My kids aren't going to belay me leading anything I have even the slightest chance of falling on until they are emotionally ready to deal with the consequences of an accident.

(and intellectually ready to organize a rescue)