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KEEP HIDDEN VALLEY, RYAN, AND JUMBO ROCK FIRST COME CAMPING!!!!!
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Feb 14, 2017
Hi all,

There has been a lot of serious talk around Joshua Tree lately about making Hidden Valley, Jumbo, and Ryan camp all reservation only. Need I say more!? If this makes the hair on your neck stand up, then please pass the word along. If this becomes a fight, it will be a hard one indeed. We are going to need all the help we can get. I hope this at least gets some intelligent conversation started on the matter.

At the very least let's save Hidden Valley!

UPDATE! (2/28/17)

Joshua Tree's superintendent stated that they will have several plans outlined by the new year addressing the issues of overcrowding, and conflict in the campgrounds. We are told that NO PLAN will take effect without the input from campers and climbers alike. Let's hope that is the case! I'm sure we all look forward to more space and less drama. Let's add a couple more campsites!

Best,

M
Mitchell Wix
Joined Feb 14, 2017
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
as a weekend warrior, I welcome the change.

If I were a dirtbag, I would be pissed off.
mpech
Joined Sep 8, 2013
6 points
Feb 14, 2017
Perhaps make Jumbo and Ryan reservation and leave HV to the traditional methods... Kevin Ranck
Joined Apr 25, 2016
15 points
Feb 14, 2017
So Mpech, as a weekend worrier you would have to book a site six-eight months in advance. You can forecast your life accordingly? If so, what if it rains you out? You lose $. Just a couple things to think about. Mitchell Wix
Joined Feb 14, 2017
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
Mitchell Wix wrote:
So Mpech, as a weekend worrier you would be able to book a site six-eight months in advance? If so, what if it rains you out? Just a couple things to think about.



This is reality already in much of Colorado--full, reservable campsites that are often booked months in advance. To combat this, you must convince people to stay home.
Nathan Self
From Louisiana
Joined Mar 5, 2012
20 points
Feb 14, 2017
oh gosh. oh no. where did you hear this?
i'd like that to not happen
madek
From Ventura, Calif.
Joined Dec 24, 2015
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
mpech wrote:
as a weekend warrior, I welcome the change. If I were a dirtbag, I would be pissed off.


I agree!
Mike0110
From Long Beach, CA
Joined Jan 19, 2015
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
Mitchell Wix wrote:
So Mpech, as a weekend worrier you would have to book a site six-eight months in advance. You can forecast your life accordingly? If so, what if it rains you out? You lose $. Just a couple things to think about.


a few bucks, that by the time the reservation comes around i probably have already forgotten about. Happens with all my other reservations year round to other places that require.

For me, first come camping shuts me out of staying at those campgrounds since they're usually full on the weekends (since I work weekdays). But I agree with the previous comment to make Jumbo and Ryan reservation only during season and leave HV as is.

I usually just camp in the backcountry or BLM since reservation only AND first come campgrounds are full. Just a short drive, nothing too bad, IMHO.

And personally, I dislike the whole permit and reservation nonsense. I like the idea of putting money back to the places we love and enjoy, buuuut sometimes it's a hassle like you said to plan ahead and blah blah blah. But i dont own the land, so i go my ways and find my own way to get around it.
Fernando Cal
From Long Beach, CA
Joined Dec 19, 2015
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
I can see it happening, and agree that it would be nice if Hidden Valley remained 1st come, first served.

I am not sure how one goes about voicing concerns and making statements in a way that gets fed into the actual system n but agree that - if the reservation system is really being discussed, it's important to get user opinions "in the system."


On a tangent:
There is a shortage of campsites - that's undeniable.

A thought occurred to me recently, and I would like to see some discussion on this as well. Ya know how the New Jack got a campground setup there. Still free, so far as I know, but.....what do people think about the idea of a similar type thing happening at the Dry Lake Bed(except forget about the kiddie playground)?

I know it is a drive but....for a free dedicated spot to camp, with a c/g host to keep an eye on the place, it's something to think about. I was wondering how it came about, the set up at New Jack, and if people would have any desire to have one at DLB.
Happiegrrrl
From Gunks
Joined Dec 23, 2005
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
Join me in my own little "pet peeve" .... if you go to those FAKE input meetings the Park Service will hold.... most likely at 2:30 pm out at the east entrance station, anex .....on a Wednesday.

Please remind them that "they promised that the ONLY reserved sites will be in Indian Cove..."

and ask, again, why have you guys removed campsites?

and ask, again, why don't you build more campsites??

are the Friends of Josh still around? back in the 90's it did get the LOOP ROAD idea shelved.

Happie....EDIT.... after all the trash was cleaned up at NJC, the little walkways made and the common understanding between climbers to keep vehicles off of the ground by the climbs.... people were just camping at that end of the road. To camp anyplace else around there put you in the "line of fire" from the other folks who went out there to shoot guns and tear up the desert.

The City of Barstow decided it would be a good Tourist Attraction.... that city has almost none. The City paid for the addition and the maintenance.... someday they might wish to start charging.



Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Joined Mar 1, 2008
105 points
Feb 14, 2017
wow - surprised that Barstow would put money into free campsite/grounds like that.... It's been a few years now, and I would have expected the fee for use would have come by now. Happiegrrrl
From Gunks
Joined Dec 23, 2005
0 points
Feb 14, 2017
How about a walk in Site for climbersItalic Text Joe De Luca
From yucca valley
Joined Oct 24, 2012
86 points
Feb 14, 2017
Mitchell Wix wrote:
So Mpech, as a weekend worrier you would have to book a site six-eight months in advance. You can forecast your life accordingly? If so, what if it rains you out? You lose $. Just a couple things to think about.



I've been going to joshua tree for the last five years. Every year the camping situation has gotten more crowded (at least for a weekend warrior like me). I've even stopped bothering to see if any spots are available at hidden valley. If these trends continue, I'd prefer the campsites to switch to a reservation-based system-- it would avoid the hassle and stress of driving through every single campsite, late at night, hoping to find one spot that is open. The weather in joshua tree is pretty predictable, so I'm not too concerned about having a reservation far in advance.

granted, I'm based out of norcal, so j-tree is not my local crag-- I would feel differently if I were going there every weekend...

best,
matt
mpech
Joined Sep 8, 2013
6 points
Feb 15, 2017
I vote for blocking registrations. Keep the internet and camping separate brajs. Down with the internet. No irony intended ever. amockalypsenow
From San Diego
Joined Nov 15, 2014
270 points
Feb 15, 2017
I'm local and would not be happy if they make that change. Will have to stop over at the park service center in town and see if I can get any info. They just raised the rates again and now this crap!!! Zachary k
Joined Apr 5, 2015
25 points
Feb 15, 2017
We can all send our concerns to David_Smith@nps.gov he is the Superintendent.
Keep it short and sweet, tell him what you want ie: non-reservation campground, a local weekend meeting, more campsites or whatever. But keep it on point so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.
Johnny Victor
From Joshua Tree
Joined May 23, 2014
0 points
Feb 15, 2017
Making the campsites reservation only won't solve the issue. Although as a weekend warrior I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but the issue remains that there is simply too little campsites to accommodate the amount of people that josh sees every year.

I for one will be telling people that africanized bees have moved to josh and is no longer safe...just doing my part to decrease the crowds
Danny Sandoval
From LA, CA
Joined Apr 26, 2016
0 points
Feb 15, 2017
By way of comparison, I tried making a Sheeps Pass reservation yesterday, and they fill up a year ahead of time (didn't get one). Though they might not employ that long of a reserve date, you won't get a site unless you're able to plan way car ahead of time. Having said that, it's not like you can find a site anyways (unless you go midweek), so would it really be that different? I agree camp sites are in short supply, but do you really want them to pave the desert and have the place to resemble Yosemite Valley or some KOA campground? Tough issue. Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Joined Nov 9, 2007
5 points
Feb 15, 2017
Danny Sandoval wrote:
Making the campsites reservation only won't solve the issue. Although as a weekend warrior I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but the issue remains that there is simply too little campsites to accommodate the amount of people that josh sees every year. I for one will be telling people that africanized bees have moved to josh and is no longer safe...just doing my part to decrease the crowds



I'm with you.. more bees!
dahigdon
From phoenix, Az
Joined Jan 5, 2015
0 points
Feb 15, 2017
Its farther out of the way but I wouldn't mind the camp site being reservations if they were added to the or farther out past jumbo rocks towards the 29 Palms entrance.

If they want to add a few more campgrounds then I would be okay with them making those a reservation spot. I also am switching towards leaning to BLM land. its not that much of a drive and and its usually warmer than in the park.
Daniel T
From Riverside, Ca
Joined Mar 19, 2015
15 points
Feb 15, 2017
Weekend warrior here and I can go either way. Reservations would make life easier since I usually plan my trips well in advance, and this would eliminate some of the guesswork. If I lived closer or was able to get out there more frequently, I would hate it.

Do locals have more of a right or say in the matter? It's a National Park and the campsites are a very limited resource. I'd probably lean towards "no." Maybe the best solution is to open up more sites to reservations, while keeping some walk-ins. If they made half of Jumbo's sites reservable, I would be all for that.

FWIW, I usually arrive on a Friday morning (early, like 6-7 am) and I almost always find a site at Jumbo, and sometimes even HV. If you're willing to drive the loops for a bit and ask people if they are leaving, you can usually find something. It's a bit of a hassle, but it beats camping outside the park in the dust.
Jason Kim
From Encinitas, CA
Joined Apr 30, 2012
60 points
Feb 15, 2017
Just pointing out that posting your preferences on reservation or not to this forum will do absolutely zero to influence park policy. C Brooks
From Fresno, CA
Joined Feb 8, 2015
278 points
Feb 15, 2017
Jason Kim wrote:
FWIW, I usually arrive on a Friday morning (early, like 6-7 am) and I almost always find a site at Jumbo

That's a sad commentary for most folks. You used to be able to drive out on Friday night and sometimes find something in HV, usually Ryan, and Jumbo would always have something. Even if you work a 4/40, having to get there that early to bag anything is grim. I think Josh's itinerant, dirt bagging ways may be drawing to a close. Honestly, not imposing a reservation system is pretty much a guarantee that 9 to 5ers will never be able to camp there.
Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Joined Nov 9, 2007
5 points
Feb 15, 2017
Yeah, it sucks. I only started going in the last 10-12 years though, so at least I don't have any memory of the golden days. It has definitely gotten more crowded in that short span of time. It's a super nice area and 2 hours away from LA, OC, and SD. It was bound to happen :( Jason Kim
From Encinitas, CA
Joined Apr 30, 2012
60 points
Feb 15, 2017
The Park is just plain too busy. Way too busy. The camping is out of control with the iron ranger system as it is. Lot's of dickbags moving into sites and removing tags and generally acting like a wall to wall bather on the Ganges. I thank Satan I don't ever need to camp in the Park again. I sorta feel for ya'll, but there are just too many of "you" now. Make other arrangements if you are SoCal based, and if coming from a distance, maybe a secured reservation will make it nice for you.

Wait for the new campground they are planning over at the 29 Palms Casino. It will be a goldmine.
Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,015 points
Feb 15, 2017
i'd rather those JT campgrounds remain as first-come sites as they are. i climb there both on wkdays and on wknds. weekenders who are proactive and willing to do more to up their chances of getting sites have still been able to. am not a believer in bailing out the lazy and inept, or those who go about it as if gas still costs only 99 cents/gal

btw, if you roll in the night before and expect a campsite for the wknd, you're way way behind the times. that's just unrealistic nowadays for any crowded locale anywhere, not just JT

reservations wouldn't mean frequent wknd climbing for everyone anyway. it would just be the same lottery odds for everyone, ie, just once or a few times of wknd climbing per season. bec of that, for weekenders who are capable and presently managing to get sites enough times out there, reservations would actually be unwelcoming

only the wknd camping is problematic. campgrounds are full by Fri and now even Thu bec of the difficulty of getting sites for wknds and the intent to occupy sites into the wknds. if the park must switch to reservations, then do that only for Fri and Sat. leave the wkdays (Sun-Thu nights) as first-come. bec wkdays are quite nice out there, with plentiful campsites and no crowds on the rocks. first-come system makes it convenient to go whenev weather is nice and whenev free to, and simply take whichev open site on arrival. insisting wkdays to go reservation as well would be a big negative, imposing unnec inconveniences to address a problem that doesn't even exist on the wkdays

i doubt the park would opt for a more precise solution like that, since a blanket reservation system for all days of the wk would be easier to implement and manage. in that case, bec of the inherent negative impacts on wkday climbing, i would rather campgrounds remain on first-come basis as they are
Sean
From Oak Park, CA
Joined Dec 18, 2004
1,178 points


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