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is this a safe top rope anchor?
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 Apr 21, 2013 Could someone demonstrate how the super 8 is no more redundant than the OP's figure 8? I've read arguments on both sides, but can't visualize it. Steve DavisFrom Tucson, AZJoined May 5, 200899 points
 Apr 21, 2013 Steve Davis wrote:Could someone demonstrate how the super 8 is no more redundant than the OP's figure 8? I've read arguments on both sides, but can't visualize it. Get yourself a piece of cheap cord/string and tie a super eight in it, next cut one of the loops, then pull on the loop as if it were the master-point. You will notice that both loops fail. The BHK won't do this. Another knot that won't fail this way, uses less rope, and is easier to untie after loading than almost any other knot is the Bowline on a bight. MTKirkFrom Billings, MTJoined Dec 20, 2011280 points
 Apr 21, 2013 MTKirk wrote: Another knot that won't fail this way, uses less rope, and is easier to untie after loading than almost any other knot is the Bowline on a bight Ummm, hello. Same problem as super eight. Greg DFrom HereJoined Apr 5, 2006999 points
 Apr 22, 2013 Greg D wrote: Ummm, hello. Same problem as super eight. yeah, what Greg said is correct because again, the integrity of those two loops is dependent on that single initial bight. If any of those '4' strands fails, the whole thing goes. Dan AllardFrom West Chester, PAJoined Mar 28, 2011614 points
 Apr 23, 2013 Dan Allard wrote: yeah, what Greg said is correct because again, the integrity of those two loops is dependent on that single initial bight. If any of those '4' strands fails, the whole thing goes. Can anyone show a documented case of a Super-8 or a bowline on a bight anchor failing because the "fold over" bight failed? I'm in serious doubt it ever has so I'd put this in the category of "technically possible but practically impossible". Allen CorneauFrom Houston, TXJoined May 6, 200891 points
 May 17, 2013 Yes, the super eight failed. Get yourself a piece of cheap cord/string and tie a super eight in it, next cut one of the loops, then pull on the loop as if it were the master-point. You will notice that both loops fail. The BHK won't do this. Another knot that won't fail this way, uses less rope, and is easier to untie after loading than almost any other knot is the Bowline on a bight. > Steve DavisFrom Tucson, AZJoined May 5, 200899 points
 May 18, 2013 Steve Davis wrote:Yes, the super eight failed. Site your documentation. Allen CorneauFrom Houston, TXJoined May 6, 200891 points
 May 18, 2013 Hey Aleksei! You've received some good feedback mixed with some quintessential hilarious MP offshoots. To add my own perspective, I'll start with a reminder that a key feature of climbing is not taking risk, but managing it. You can climb on this anchor many times and probably not die, especially if it's not rubbing over any edges. If you take home one message from all of this forum, take home the BHK - know it's out there and know it would make your system a little bit better (a LOT better if the master point was around anything sharp, and a good thing to do as a default). You are wise to practice this in your apartment, and I'm sure you are reading up a bit, but remember that it would be especially wise to connect with someone who has a good deal of experience and shares your level of acceptable risk (a hard thing to judge - how is an aspiring outdoors climber to judge the experience, level-headedness, and quality of instruction of an experienced climber... but that's a topic for another MP discussion). Fiendishly devour the classic textbooks - "Freedom of the Hills", "The Mountaineering Handbook", and "Rock Climbing Anchors" to get your self-education, but remember there is no substitute for climbing with an experienced sensei when it comes to becoming fluent with these skills and thinking about all the contingencies as you're building an anchor on the cliff. MP has a lot of wise people who can give you a lot of good feedback, but it also has a lot of people who may not think like mere mortals and would tell you they'd take a whipper on a girth hitch around a dead log, and so I wouldn't recommend a dear friend try crowdsourcing something as high-stakes as anchor-building skills. One big, major step towards managing risk in climbing is finding a sensei you can trust, and climbing with them again, and again, and again. Otherwise, your anchor looks good. I would take a whipper on that ;-D. Alex WashburneJoined Apr 29, 201074 points
 May 18, 2013 I did just as MTKirk suggested. I tied a piece of twine into a super eight, cut one of the loops, and weighted the other (with my finger). One of the cut strands pulled through the knot and the remaining loop failed. Edited for tone. johnnyrig wrote:So when you cut one loop of the two "bunny ears", looks like the remaining loop, and how it's threaded through the rest of the 8 is similar in form to the finish of a bowline. Which is secure, generally, if you remember to finish it. Pull tests showing evidence of failure? Personal experience? Steve DavisFrom Tucson, AZJoined May 5, 200899 points
 May 19, 2013 some of you are gonna freak out at whats on the AAI blog about anchors ;) alpineinstitute.blogspot.ca/20... bearbreederJoined Mar 1, 20093,068 points

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