Is it just me, or is this bad form?

I went to do some bouldering this morning in Castlewood canyon, near the Grocery Store wall. On my way up, I passed a VERY large group of climbers who were gathering in the parking area. Once I arrived at the top of the trail, I saw a couple of ropes hanging from the anchors up top, with no climbers to be seen. Continuing on, I continued seeing more and more ropes hanging from the top of what seemed like most of the moderate lines, all with no climbers nearby.

On my way out, I noticed that several of those ropes were occupied by the large group, which I later found out was the CMC. Many of the ropes were still unoccupied, but appeared to belong to the group. While this had no impact on me, I did hear quite a bit of grumbling from a couple of other parties who had just showed up to find so many climbs taken by one group.

So, is it just me, or is this bad form?

as i was told once in the gunks "there are 1400 other routes pick one". althought it flamed me at the time, it made sense, and i never let that bother me again.

but yes it is still wrong.

i think that if ropes are hanging Mr. Form says you can toprope on it all you want if you feel comfortable on someone else's rope. Otherwise just pull it and bring down their TR gear when you're done.

Thats Summer at the Grocery Store Wall.

Think of it as an almost free gym that is also used regularly for rescue training. Its been like that for ages. The place was an OLD CMC/misc. rescue group haunt back when I first started visiting CWC in the mid-80's. Standard climbing etiquette requires adhering to the local traditions, at the Grocery Store that means dealing with the frequent rope-a-ramas. Chances are that CMC has been going out there before many of ya'll were born; they waaay predate me and Tom Hanson.

As far as I'm concerned, if heading to the GS is all the imagination one has in a canyon where that is about 5% of the climbable rock, one should probably expand their horizons a bit. If people would venture out just a little farther to the sport walls, they'd find better routes and easier anchors to rig; although not a lot under 5.10. Its all part of evolving into the sport: get better at harder stuff and more and more options open up. Personally, I'm ambivalent about granting beta to apprentices as I'd rather just let nature take its course.

I would like to point out that the current management team at CWC is interested in promoting climbing as an activity, and is even open to the idea of intelligent development. It would be nice to have some sort of a community (other than a couple of balding greybeards)willing to get involved. The Head Ranger is aware that there is a need for more shady-side climbing access, but for right now I am the only one pursuing things. Maybe this thread could jump-start some renewed interest, but I doubt it. John's 'tude is a sign of the typical snobbery we Chosswoodians have to shrug off.

I'm pretty sure that a group in the CMC was conducting a beginning climbing class there today.

I was down at Grocery Store Wall last Sunday and only saw a couple of other groups - both cool, laid back and friendly.

If I came across a big setup like that I don't think I'd hesitate to ask about jumping on a rope, or pulling it and then setting it back up for them when I got done.

That said, there's plenty of routes to go around.

No worries John, I knew it was just a quip. Defending the Chosswood Empire is akin to "hey, the water was cold!", or "its not the size, its the technique". Short is short, which makes us a wee bit touchy.

You ought to come down sometime and give the overhanging fat crack Primal Jam a shot. It'd give you a good battle.

as long as you don't mind people getting on the route, i wouldn't think its bad form. But i don't buy the argument that CMC has been climbing here for ages so they can monopolized it, everyone has a right to climb.

ah! the old gangroping trick

Jonathan White wrote:as long as you don't mind people getting on the route, i wouldn't think its bad form. But i don't buy the argument that CMC has been climbing here for ages so they can monopolized it, everyone has a right to climb.

CMC had me give them a slideshow lecture on the sport routes at CWC back around 1992. I thought I was being called forth to an Inquisition Tribunal, as the bolt wars had really just exploded. Instead, what I found was a bunch of guys who were genuinely excited about all that new terrain we had opened. I was warmly received.

So if the ropes they had set were for top-roping (when they set up for rappelling practice they tend to rig the ropes in a static configuration, plus quadruple backed up with stuff like come-alongs) they would be more than eager to share rides on their ropes. The only problem might be that they are too enthusiastic, and riding one of their ropes would be like letting a Jehova's Witness actually come into your living room.

Now, the Search and Rescue guys on the other hand show about as much humor as Dick Cheney when they are training, but I'm OK with that too.

Ninety-percent of climbers go to Grocery Store Wall when visiting The Wood, though Grocery Store Wall makes up less than one-percent of the climbable rock in the canyon. This crag is popular with topropers who climb at the easier grades. There are seven miles of cliff-line at The Wood, yet people congregate at the hundred yards of cliff at Grocery Store like flies on poo.
The Grocery Store Wall is a great place to educate large groups. It is a "controllable" environment, since the base area is broad enough to contain big parties, the approach is almost non-existent and there are existing fixed anchors on top. This is why the Colorado Mountain Club, Douglas County Search and Rescue, Franktown Fire Dept, Castlewood Canyon Fall Festival and Boy Scouts, etc. use this spot to hold their classes.
If you get to this west rim crag and it is congested, just walk south to the Neanderthal Walls and you'll find many open routes. Better yet, take one of the beautiful trails to the east, north or south rims and have an entire crag to yourself.

i was at castlewood yesterday and noticed that all the climbs that weren't grocery store proper had chopped anchors. What's that all about?

i'm a little intimidated by the talk of rattlers and poison ivy everywhere else in the canyon. Any suggestions on cliffs there that 1. aren't crowded 2. aren't bushwacks - don't mind a hike, but i want to be able to see the rattlers at my feet! too many close calls at j-tree etc give me the creeps 3. don't have chopped anchors 4. have at least one 10a or less i can put my boyfriend on so i don't lose my belay slave?

also, i was a little put off at first by all the climbs taken by one big group and ropes hanging with nobody climbing - but i found a place to set up and the group was friendly, so it was all good... just a little stage fright on my part i guess

Rudy,
The Wendell Spire sport crag is a very short hike from the east entrance parking lots which are accessed from Hwy 83 five miles south of Franktown. There are two dozen sport climbs from 5.6 to 5.13
Morning Sun Wall is on the west rim, a ways south of Grocery Store Wall. There are four sport lines, all about 10+ with anchors on top to toprope.
South Canyon Point has several lines, many with double bolt tr anchors in the 5.9 to 5.10 range. Take The Lake Gulch Trail from the westernmost lot via the east entrance.
Best yet is equip yourself with some long slings and a minimal trad rack to set your own anchors, since everything in the canyon can be toproped.

Having a toprope on a climb you aren't actively climbing is the height of bad form.

yes, it is bad form to monopolize routes when you're not even using them. hell, sometimes it's bad form to monopolize routes if you are using them.

Working with a large group is hard to do. either being a leader of the group or just showing up to recreate. wasn't at the Wood recently. The trouble a large group has is teaching various skill sets, they rotate through; some routes get stand-by'd, it happens. I'd just talk with the leaders; most of us just try to help & don't intend to go out of way to piss off climbers.

I try to look for unpopular areas. I think with Tom's new book and routing available, hopefully this can be a better situation. Most people, including me, don't even know the resource of the canyon.

For the Fire/Rescue & SAR teams working, they are doing this in a small cliff-workable environment so as to help out on places like Sheep's Nose or Turkey & Big Rock. The situation they deal with is unfriendly by definition; it's not easy to recreate around these trainings either.

It'd be great if everyone at least tried to work together.

Bad form perhaps, but not as much as 26 amped up folks turned loose on Colorado crags with no skills at all, (I'd rather see SAR practicing than on a mission you know?). Apologies to anyone who found their favorite lines taken. The CMC had 8 lines up - 4 of them on gear on not so popular lines. We set up at 630 and out group rolled in around 745 so stuff did sit for a bit. In years past we have absolutely turned people onto our lines if they are not being used. The nature of a big group is that lines hang every now and then. One day a year... that's all.
Promise.
On a postive note all the new climbers went home with bloody fingertips... ;-)

pete wrote:On a postive note all the new climbers went home with bloody fingertips... ;-)

and smiles? with adrenaline rushes I hope?

:)