|Type:||Sport, 1 pitch, 70'|
|Original:||YDS: 5.10c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b [details]|
|FA:||Fred AmRhein (2002)|
|Submitted By:||David Arthur Sampson on Dec 16, 2007|
|Must Register! Private Property-The Pond, Atlantis and Mine Area MORE INFO >>>|
|Comments on In Seam||Add Comment|
|Show which comments —
May 23, 2008
|FA: October 2002, Fred AmRhein|
From: Phoenix & Prescott, AZ
Mar 11, 2010
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b
|A thoughtful route that helps prep for "Soft Parade." Welcome relief from the overhanging pocket pulling!|
By roman d
From: Pasadena, CA
Jan 31, 2011
|Great line! Suffers a bit from unnecessary bolts, but a fun and different climb for the area.|
From: Phoenix, AZ
Jan 30, 2012
|tried this route having no idea what the rating was because it was not listed in my book. This resulted in my first fall outdoors and was it ever fun and exciting. later found out it was a 10.c now i know why i fell. great route fun climbing. i will be back to complete this route.|
By susan peplow
From: Joshua Tree
Feb 5, 2012
rating: 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b
|Hey Adam, if that was you on Sunday you almost had it. Glad to see you kept at it....'til failure. Next time you'll know what to expect. Good luck!|
By Fred AmRhein
Apr 6, 2012
Sorry to hear of your dismay at the overabundance of bolts on the route. As the FA on this one and a few others nearby, I'll explain.
If you are referring to the bolts near the crack at the beginning; I bolted the crack for the simple reason that The Pond is a sport climbing area and I just followed the ethic. There's probably no clear cut rationale here that will make die-hard gearheads happy, but it is a sport area and I respect that.
I debated whether to bolt the crack here (and on Mona Lisa too) but decided that the bolts would probably allow for more people to enjoy the terrain given the lack of trad gear laden visitors. I could have made a statement by using my stoppers and hexes in the crack, my tri-cams in the various pockets, and cams in the horizontals, but why? It's a sport area and the tradition there is to primarily pack in a rope, various shoes, plenty of draws, and lots of sunscreen.
If the bolts are simply too close together down low I guess it's just a habit. I tend to place bolts closer together near the ground and try to spread them out further up. (Witness the top nearby up high on The Big Weld Show where some people think it's actually run out)
I suppose bolting is a bit of an art, not a science. I guess I've come to feel that most people want to go home after sport climbing to their families and friends and I'd rather try to err on the side of safety when putting routes up in such an area. I may not always succeed but I try, like I said, it's somewhat of an art not necessarily a science.
Just my personal view.
Apr 6, 2012
Fred I concur with your reasoning here. Bolts should be closer when ground fall potential exists. We do the same thing all the time.
Sport climbing by definition is suppose to be safe. If someone hits the ground while clipping the second or third bolt it's not a sign of the FA's boldness it's a sign he or she doesn't know how to create a safe sport route.
I've done all the moves on top rope in order to clean and determine line and bolt placement. Knowing where that hidden side pull or pocket is can make a early clip seem casual to me, so I always try to put my self in the shoes of someone who is on-sighting the route. They may not find the hold. If they don't and fall are they going to hit the deck?
We do routes several grades below our ability all the time. So I also always try to keep in mind what the moves would and clips would be like for someone climbing at their limit.
As far as too many bolts, it's a sport route on a crag littered with bolts. If Roman thinks there are too many bolts he can skip some clips. If you placed 10 bolts instead of 12 on a route would that really effect the look and feel of the climb that much??