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Ice Tools

Original Post
RForbus · · Hotlanta · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Getting into ice climbing and alpine climbing. I've been doing a lot of research online about axes. I want a tool that's great on ice, climbs mixed terrain well, and is good for alpinism. I've been looking at the BD Vipers, Petzl Nomic, or the BD Fusion. I've read reviews on most of them. Seems that the Viper or Fusion may be more suited for alpine climbing. Where as the nomic is more strictly for steep ice/mixed climbing. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know this topic has probably been beaten to death. I tried to do a seach but couldn't find anything substantial. Thanks for any input. cheers.

Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20

I think the Viper is what you're looking for. Like you said, the Nomics and Fusions are more for mixed climbing or super-steep ice, whereas the Viper tends to be more of an all-around tool.

You're in luck, too, because I'm trying to get rid of a pair of like-new Vipers right now! ;-) mountainproject.com/v/fs-bl…

Mike Hasse · · New York, NY · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 365

Also check out the Petzl Quarks. I used to do all my climbing on a pair of Vipers; they're solid tools no doubt. However, once I picked up the Quarks, I never looked back. All my climbing is done now with Nomics for hard ice and mixed, and Quarks for everything else.

Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20
Mike Hasse wrote:Also check out the Petzl Quarks. I used to do all my climbing on a pair of Vipers; they're solid tools no doubt. However, once I picked up the Quarks, I never looked back. All my climbing is done now with Nomics for hard ice and mixed, and Quarks for everything else.
What do you like about Quarks over Vipers?
Erik W · · Santa Cruz, CA · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 280

Quark, Viper, Grivel Matrix Tech or Light. As your first set, any of those will be great to learn and grow on. Just find a set at the best condition/price ratio and get them.

Realize that replacement picks for the BDs will be cheaper and easier to find.

I had Vipers for years and used them on everything... ice/mixed/alpine. Great tools. Every time I used a pair of Quarks on pure ice, however, I was jealous.

jim.dangle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 5,882

In my very humble opinion-- money aside-- the only tools to consider are Cobras and Nomics. Cobras for alpine and lower angle ice; Nomics for higher angle ice and mixed. If you have any ambition for harder climbing get the Nomics. You can make them work in the alpine and they excel at everything else. Bear in mind that no tool is really good everything and most climbers have to think realistically about how much actual alpine climbing they will be doing compared to waterfall or mixed lines.

If you buy any other tools and you stick with ice climbing you will probably want to upgrade to nomics or cobras eventually (unless new, better tools come out) so why not just get them now.

I'm not saying any other tools are bad-- far from it--just that money aside these are the standouts.

My two cents.

Jim

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Grivel Matrix lights with horns are great for the alpine/WI3. Worked like a dream on Rainier and Hood.

Grivel Matrix Tech for steeper ice and mixed are great as well.

You can make arguments for many different tools, and some do better than others for different things. How they swing/feel in your hand is very important, and bang for the buck. These grivel tools solved all points for me.

Smoking deal on the Techs if they've got any left

shop.alpenglowgear.com/snow…

Josh Brown · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 20

Having had both quarks (previous gen. not the latest with the trigger) and now the latest version of the vipers I would say try both out if possible and see which one fits your grip best. I really liked my quarks but after using the vipers the grip just fit my smaller hands better than the quarks.
The major deciding factor to sell my quarks was the tendency for Petzl to update their products and make previous generations obsolete and not to continue manufacturing replacement parts. With the new Quarks you have an entirely new pick and the Cascade pick, the pick for the old quarks, is becoming scarce. The vipers I bought came with a spare set of picks from the 90's that still fit the latest generation. Something to consider since R&D for both companies made a conscious decision to either force you to buy a whole new set of tools or let you use your old tools continuously.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

If you want the best of both worlds , then petzl quark , black diamond cobras, or the grivel matrix , and the vipers as well .I'd also look into the camp all mountain .im assuming your interested in plunge ability ? For alpine , they will all plunge just fine despite the finger rests.

Any one of those tools will serve you well in the alpine and you can climb any steep ice you want with them , a little mixed as well .

Hell you can plunge nomics too, I've plunged the crap out of mine. The nomics and x dreams would be a good compromise that favored ice n mixed yet are tolerable for alpine. Why ?

Because here's what normally happens, peps get psyched to alpine climb but spend more time climbing at there local ice/ mixed area . And end up getting frustrated at there
Tools , realizing they should have bought X brand vs Y because X climbs steep ice n mixed better, there easier to grip , plant, more stable on thin dime edges ect, ect ya de ya de ya.

So perhaps you should be thinking about how much alpine climbing your REALLY going to do , then decide . Don't fall victim to the " good tool to grow with bullshit" a pair of nomics, x dreams , grivels or cobras are a good tool to grow with , because the more you use that tool the better you'll get .

I wouldn't worry too much about finding picks for the newer model tools the only exception will be when petzl decides to Change there tools again .

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Try as many tools as you can before you make a decision. Cassin tools would be one way to go. Try both the All Mountain and the X Dreams to see what you like best.

KathyS · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 125
Kirby1013 wrote: Try as many tools as you can before you make a decision. Cassin tools would be one way to go. Try both the All Mountain and the X Dreams to see what you like best.
The All Mountains would be a good choice for all-around, but if the OP wants tools that could be used for alpine climbing, I would not recommend the X-Dreams. I have a pair, and the ridged metal bit on the end of the handle gets poor traction on icy terrain. These would pretty much suck at caning, compared to the many superior options. Grivel Matrix/Quantum Techs, Quarks and All Mountains would all be more versatile.
PatCleary · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Definitely try minimally a pair of BD tools and a pair of Petzl tools. They may vary model to model, but I pretty consistently don't like BD's feel and do like Petzl. I tried a partner's DMM apex's for a pitch or so, and liked the pick but not the swing. DMM and CAMP are both worth checking out.

My choice was a pair of Nomics, I've climbed a low angle glacier with them, low angle slabby ice, and steep ice. Were they perfect for all those things? Probably not, but my shortcomings were in my technique, not the tools. I'd rather have too much tool than too little.

For alpine snowy stuff, they'll plunge well enough until it gets hard, and then when that stops you can generally get up on high dagger holds and they're rock solid.

RForbus · · Hotlanta · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

So it seems as though the Nomics or Cobras are the way to go. I guess in a perfect world one would have a pair of Cobras for more alpiny routes and a pair of Nomics for the steep ice and mixed routes. There is no axe out there currently that is a quiver killer.

PatCleary · · Boston, MA · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

Maybe the X-All Mountain, maybe the Quark (no first hand experience with either). I suspect If you're asking about tools and looking for a quiver killer any of these tools will get you (and me) up anything you're shooting for IMO.

RForbus · · Hotlanta · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

I'm not necessarily looking for a quiver killer. Just looking for the axe thats going to allow me to climb a little bit of everything. I'm leaning towards maybe getting a move agressive tool so i don't outgrow a lesser pair. I'm leaning towards the Nomics. But the Cobras are awful tempting as well. Although they are $$$

AKM1878 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 50
jim.dangle wrote:In my very humble opinion-- money aside-- the only tools to consider are Cobras and Nomics. Cobras for alpine and lower angle ice; Nomics for higher angle ice and mixed. Jim
I don't understand why so many people say that the cobras are only good for "lower angle ice". Most of the climbers I know that lead WI6 lead it on cobras.

I think that the ice conditions play a larger role in what tool to use than the steepness. Nomics will climb better on more featured or hooked ice. The cobras climb better on smooth ice.
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

IMHO a tool for all round climbing is the first generation of BD Cobras. They really do it all. Best of all one can find a pair used for price of one new tool:

ebay.com/itm/Black-Diamond-…

Note: not my auction, not an endorsement , etc.

Maddie Adamy · · Morrison, CO · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0

I am also looking at the Grivel Quatum Tech, Grivel Matrix Tech, and Petzl Nomics for mixed and steep ice. Does anyone have any thoughts about the Grivels, as they don't have a trigger?

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

The Quantum and Matrix Techs are fantastic tools. Great steel. Great balance and swing. The Quantum, to my knowledge, are a carbon/alloy mix, not full carbon. They do dampen the impact a bit on ice, so that took a little to get used to when I used my friends for a few laps.

You can add a trigger if you really want to, but you don't want to get too crazy on matching hands too high on them - tends to be a bit of pick shift. I don't use a trigger, rely on stick tape just above the normal handle.

Also, good stock tools for hands with shorter fingers/palm/smaller grip diameter. I have big hands, so I added tape to the handle as well. Works beautifully.

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FoamFinger _______ · · Rad Town, Not set (USA) · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 250

Try every Tool you can get your hands on! Swing geometry is different for everyone, I doubt you would have the same experience as your partner(s) when trying the same pair of tools. When you've tried out a few of the more notable brands on this list you will figure it out for yourself.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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