Ice tools and self-arresting

When I went out to the Alps last summer I brought one of my 50cm ice tools and one 57cm Camp Alpina which is similar to the BD Venoms. I had brought the latter because I wanted something that was better at self-arresting than my technical tools. I had no trouble leading AI4 with this setup and the longer tool also worked a lot better as a cane on the slogs.

I'm now planning a trip to do Liberty Ridge and my partner says he wants to go with either his Cobras or old BD Shrikes. I tried to convince him to pick up a Venom or equivalent for the glacier crossings, but he's reluctant.

I know that technical and even leashless tools are becoming more common in the alpine. Do people just accept the extra risk when crossing glaciers, or keep the leashless tools for the routes which don't cross crevasses?

Disagree with TDog on the ice tool thing (but agree with him on the responsibilities of the partnership). On stuff like the image below, I only go with ice tools and have to do plenty of glacier crossing. There are slopes I also need to cross that being able to self arrest is nice if you mess up. Now on Liberty Ridge you don't need modern high tech ice tools and definately not leashless. For stuff like that I use my old, old ice tools (my BD Black Prophets from 1993/4ish) and put a pick that isn't so aggressive. There are more modern choices that would be similar.

Having said that, a self arrest with an ice tool will feel different. Before you get into a situation where it matters go out and practice self arresting (ok, ok, I know you may be proficient with your ice axes) with your ice tools setup with the picks that you will be using in the mountains until it is second nature.

mountainproject.com/images/…

mountainproject.com/v/chuck…

youtube.com/watch?v=vlaBehE…

I feel like this move is basically a self arrest, and it doesn't seem so hard... On the other hand though, he is using leashes...

Then again...at 5:25 there is some pretty compelling evidence that they don't work so well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7raPDYo&feature=related

John Maguire wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlaBehEZDEg I feel like this move is basically a self arrest, and it doesn't seem so hard... On the other hand though, he is using leashes... Then again...at 5:25 there is some pretty compelling evidence that they don't work so well... youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7ra…

what they forgot to show is the shoulder surgery afterwords......

but it does seem pretty straight forward to me

and thats why you can never trust those cams

Self arresting on high angle terrain doesnt work 99% of the time. For glacier travel I like to rock a BD whipit and a technical tool with a hammer for pounding in pickets. Try Pounding in a picket while holding a crack fall with a Mtn. axe with a adze. Plus having two technical tools for alpine ice climbing makes it more safe and faster. Take the basket off of your whipit and you have a good tool to plunge, pull bergshrunds and poke around for cracks. Thats what we rock in the rotten Wrangells of AK.