How to set up this toprope anchor?
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Situation:
1. Two bolts with hangers on the flat ground on the top of the cliff 2. The bolts are about 10 ft back from the edge 3. There are three routes that can be set up to toprope depending on where you drape the anchor point over the edge. (I think that may be part of the reason for the bolts to be so far back away from the edge.) Gear available: 1. Two long cordelettes, not equal in length, each longer than 10ft, but not as long as 20ft. The cordelettes are each already a closed loop, which I don't intend to retie. 2. assorted biners. The above situation and the gear are given, so there is no need to discuss what they should have been. My question is, given the gear (mainly those cordelettes), when the leader reaches the top, what setup is best and fast for her to rig so the anchor point can drape over the cliff where she wants for her follower, and later, the anchor point can still be moved to serve as the anchor for a neighboring route (from the same bolts) without having to completely redo the whole setup? More specifically, I'm looking for an answer to this questions: what's the best way (type of knot?) to shorten these two closed-loop cordelettes so they are mostly equalized at the anchor point and the anchor is adjustably directional? In this case, I value equalization and adjustability more than redundancy. For example, I've used a shoulder sling on two close bolts with the anchor point on the sliding x for a quick toprope setup. But I have nothing against redundancy and it is needed more often than not. |
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Just buy some static rope. It will be easier. Otherwise, use the cordelette, you'll have to untie them. |
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Think of it as a puzzle. Don't take shortcut. Work with what you have and see what's the best solution you can come up with. |
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Two bolts less than 10' from the edge. Two cordelettes longer than 10', clip the bolts run the cords to the edge, knot them together with an eight or overhand. Clip two biners in opposition and hang the rope. JB |
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Shorten the length of the cordelette with an alpine butterfly. |
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Or an overhand on a bight. Or a clove hitch. Either way, you're making this much harder than it needs to be, and the attributes you value (equalization over redundancy on a 2 bolt anchor) suggest that you have room to grow regarding understanding the fundamentals of anchor building. The fact that you are somewhat bitterly anticipating what are the most obvious solutions/feedback make me wonder why you don't take them to heart. |
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I am assuming from your description that each cordelette loop will easily go from a bolt to well over the cliff edge with some length to spare for a few knots. I would take a bight of each cordelette and tie them together into a redundant master point (using an overhand or figure 8). Then just clove hitch the other end of each cordelette to a separate bolt. Adjust the cloves to achieve the desired position of the master point. |
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ChossKing wrote: rockandice.com/master-class… extend yourself and the belay to the edge of the cliff using the rope.Reading comprehension FAIL. This is a TR anchor. |
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JBernard wrote:I am assuming from your description that each cordelette loop will easily go from a bolt to well over the cliff edge with some length to spare for a few knots. I would take a bight of each cordelette and tie them together into a redundant master point (using an overhand or figure 8). Then just clove hitch the other end of each cordelette to a separate bolt. Adjust the cloves to achieve the desired position of the master point.The issue with this is that the master point is only equalized and set up for maybe the middle route. |
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Jan Tarculas wrote: The issue with this is that the master point is only equalized and set up for maybe the middle route.Maybe I am misunderstanding him but I am assuming when he says "I value equalization and adjustability..." that he means the ability to easily move the whole rig from one climb to the adjacent on either side. The cloves on the bolts should allow easy adjustability. I am not reading it that all adjacent climbs can be done without any adjusting of the system. Can't see how that's possible. |
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Mei.. there are a myriad of ways to rig a rope here with a few caveats. |
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Thanks all for the input. And thanks Jan and JBernard for taking the time to draw on a computer, which I know how time consuming it can be. |
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Mei wrote: I thought about clove hitching at the bolt for its adjustability. But that renders one strand in that cordelette useless.!you can tie a clove hitch with both strands Double Strand Clove |
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JBernard wrote: you can tie a clove hitch with both strandsNever did that and never seen that used by others, but I suppose you are right! Hence the need for the stopper biner. I wonder with the double strand, is its arrest power as strong as a single strand clove hitch? If I can trust the holding power, it does provide another simple solution -- use both cordelettes as slings that can pretty much be adjusted to ANY length. Can I trust it? |
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You should consider taking an anchor class from a professional instructor, I think you would get a lot out of it. |
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Honestly a static rope setup would make this 100% easier. Clove hitch the rope to one of the bolts and figure out how long you need it to be to hang over the edge. Adjust the length so there's a good amount hanging over the edge. Then clove hitch the other bolt and make the master point with a figure 8 or overhand. And if you want to save money and not buy another rope just buy more accessory cord and make a REALLY REALLY long cordellette. |
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Well, the simplest solution would be to just untie the damn cordellette... |
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Ted Pinson wrote:Well, the simplest solution would be to just untie the damn cordellette...+7 I think the special knot you are looking for is the double fisherman's - and you use it in the "untie it" configuration. OR- the problem with adjusting clove hitches at the bolts is that there's no weight on the rope to ensure the master point is in the right spot? You've got people down at the base of the climb right? Just have them pull down on the rope a bit and help out. |
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Jan Tarculas wrote: I tried my best using MS Paint, I hope this make sense. You said your two cordalettes are over 10 ft, so if you tie a figure 8 on a bite to one bolt and a clove hitch on one, then a master point, I'm going to assume you will be about 2-3 ft back from the lip/edge of the top, depending how far the bolts are. With the master point that far back, you can clip two locking biners on that then clip both ends of your other cordalette with sliding X for the anchor for your 3 routes. Again all depends on how far the routes are and exactly how much rope you have, but your anchor should still be equalized whichever you point it towards.Umm. No. This won't equalize at all. And clipping your red lockers to a single strand eliminates redundancy too! Scrap this altogether. |
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You could achieve a redundant, equalized, no extension anchor with just one cordalette. |