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Hot if You're Not aka The Brown Eye Wall 

YDS: 5.11b French: 6c Ewbanks: 23 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 23 British: E3 5c

Type:  Sport, 1 pitch, 80'
Original:  YDS: 5.11c French: 6c+ Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 24 British: E4 6a [details]
FA: Eric Fedor and Fred Knapp
Page Views: 4,197
Submitted By: Kristo torgersen on Jul 30, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (115)
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Si cruises this route at the 2nd crux!

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  • Description 

    This line begins by climbing straight up on left angling rails and a three finger pocket to an enormous hueco. These moves are the first of two cruxes, and are unprotected, so have your belayer spot you through these moves. From the hueco, pull up on jugs to gain a ledge and stand up to gain the first bolt. Staying right makes for a more consistent and sustained climb, moving through a series of small edges and horizontal cracks past another bolt to gain a good stance below the overhang (this can be avoided on easier ground by climbing up left on huecos and stepping back right). Second crux: avoid the overhang by moving out right around a small corner on crimpers, and surging up right (a bit reachy) to more crimpers and a stance above the overhang, and the third bolt. From here, it's a couple moderate moves up left to gain the anchors.

    Lower off or top out and walk off to the north.


    Three bolts to anchors.

    Comments on Hot if You're Not aka The Brown Eye Wall Add Comment
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    Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Oct 16, 2016
    By Leo Paik
    From: Westminster, Colorado
    Jul 25, 2002
    rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

    Skip the 1st section and start on Final Solution and use the last crux to create a moderate 10a.
    By Tony B
    From: Around Boulder, CO
    Sep 9, 2002
    rating: 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c R

    The top felt a little harder than Leo suggested as a 5.10a, but the bottom easier than the given grade of 11c. Going ground up as intended, directly through the first crux (unprotected) was probably 5.11a. The feet are insecure for the first meter of climbing, but then it gets less chancey- hard still, but less chancey.
    By Doug Redosh
    From: Golden, CO
    Sep 12, 2002

    I was there with Leo that day. If you don't heelhook, it feels a lot harder than 10a! Nice place to climb on a hot summer day, since it is shady.
    By Skip Harper
    Apr 27, 2003

    Did the route on 4-26-03. The top anchors are getting scary! My guess is people have been TR'ing directly through the cold shuts, not on QDs. The shuts are worn halfway through and are rusty. Anyone coming up to do the route might think about bringing a couple of cold shuts and a small crescent to replace them.
    By ian t. loyd
    Jun 25, 2003

    There is a formal approval process in place with Boulder Open Space and Moutain Parks to replace fixed gear in the Flatirons, which is being taken over by the Flatirons Climbing Council's Fixed Hardware Review Committee (more details to follow in the next few weeks). Gear replacement requests will be reviewed and expedited on a regular basis.

    By Anonymous Coward
    Jun 25, 2003

    In the case of worn out hangers, a don't ask/don't tell policy is probably in order.
    By patrick
    Jun 25, 2003

    I think it would be helpful to define the terms being used so as to avoid ambiguity. In the trade world of masonry, from which climbers borrowed the technology, the term anchor refers to that portion of the hardware that is directly secured to the rock. It does not refer to anything attached to the anchor, in this case a cold-shut. We climbers are accustomed to referring to the entire get-up as an anchor or bolt, and that's fine. In this instance OSMP draws a distinction between the hanger / cold-shut and the rock anchor / bolt. Nobody is suggesting that the anchor / bolt be modified in any way. One simply has to loosen the nut or bolt, remove and replace the cold shut, and tighten. This is a simple matter of upgrading the hanger / cold shut. Permission is not needed, just beneficence. As a rule of thumb, if you need anything more than a wrench to do the job, get permission from OSMP.

    For the record, anyone interested in replacing old gear with new gear in the Flatirons must still contact OSMP directly, not FHRC. OSMP has and will continue to coordinate this effort.

    P.S. Hat's off to FCC for their diplomacy and years of persistence. Our kids and grandkids may be the beneficiaries of their fine work!
    By David A. Turner
    Jun 29, 2003
    rating: 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c

    I am the Chair of the Flatirons Climbing Council, and I believe that Patrick is correct. If it is just a matter of replacing a [hanger], no bureaucracy is required. If the bolt stud in the rock is need of replacement, OSMP must be contacted. They will generally issue a permit that same day. A number of bad bolts have been replaced including on the East Ridge of the Maiden, and Pentaprance on the Third. On another issue, there will be applications for the placement of brand new fixed anchors available in the climbing stores and gyms in the near future. This is a process similar to ACE in Eldo. If approved, these will be the first new fixed anchors placed in the Flatirons since the ban went into effect in 1989. The area open for this includes selected cliffs on Dinosaur Mountain. The applications will have the designated cliffs delineated. While currently limited in scope, it is our hope that the Pilot Project will be deemed successful by OSMP and lead to the opening of other areas in the Flatirons in the future.
    By willem
    Aug 31, 2004
    rating: 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c

    Fun route, though it is disappointing that safe harware is not available for someone before the "1st bolt." As well, I don't understand the logic why the 10 to the left had all bolts removed.
    By Fred Knapp
    Feb 12, 2005

    The original top anchors (over the top) have been replaced by modern anchors beneath the lip. Clearly, this allows the rope to run better, but we bolted this in the 80s and we weren't so clued in. We didn't bolt the lower bit because it was an established boulder problem that had been climbed many times sans protection. The name stems from a co-worker at Neptune's who kept complaining that "All these sport climbers think they're hot when they're not."
    By David A. Turner
    May 26, 2008
    rating: 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c

    V2 or 3 at the bottom, 11a at the top.
    By jarthur
    From: Westminster, CO
    Oct 4, 2008

    Stay true to the route and go direct. Don't bail out by traversing into it from the left. This route is really good if you just stay direct at the start. The hardest move is moving to the left hand pocket before grabbing the hueco at 10-ft. Only a spotter is required.
    By slim
    Aug 4, 2011
    rating: 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c PG13

    Good route. Even with the heel hook, the top felt harder than 10a and kind of excting as it is hard to preview before launching into it. Tricky feet at the bottom.
    By Paul Glover
    Jun 24, 2012

    I am never going to feel okay about that first bolt in an ancient boulder problem done way, way back in the day (Dinosaur Mtn was Holloway's favorite bouldering area). What a gorgeous problem too and then that putrid stick-clip bolt for the weak. The whole idea is weak. I've bolted some stupid stuff, and I am even glad some of it got chopped and is now left for TRing, but this one.... Oh well, no more clinging to old school ways. That's all dead now, and let's face it, they were awfully confused too. Welcome the long lame age of weenbag gym climbers. I just try not to look at that bolt as I climb past.
    By adam brink
    From: Boulder, CO
    Jun 24, 2012

    I'm with you, Paul. The new bolt is lame and unnecessary. If a toprope is wanted for the first section, one can boulder around it and clip the original first bolt.
    By Kevin Meyers
    Oct 21, 2012

    Paul Glover, myself, and another friend climbed the bouldering start back in 1983. There was no chalk, no bolts, and no indication that anyone had climbed here. Paul got it first. I think that I was handicapped by my full size hiking boots as I had not yet acquired a pair of climbing shoes. We were 16 at the time and thought that we had done a cool first ascent. Doing a little research in Erickson's "Rocky Heights" guidebook, we discovered that it had been done already and was called "The Brown Eye Wall". I emphasize with Paul's comment and the fact that the party that put the bolts in didn't add the first bolt in deference to the people who bouldered here before. If you feel sketchy about the start, just imagine a geeky, bumbly kid in old school hiking boots sans chalk rising to the challenge and being all the wiser for it. Ah, those were the days of high adventure!
    By Freese Ohler
    Apr 7, 2013

    Gee, I sure wish I was badass enough to have done this in hiking boots AND no chalk!!! WOW! It sure does suck that there is another first bolt. I mean, God forbid someone might have to skip it to get a riskier and more fulfilling experience. Actually I think Paul is right, sometimes it's better to just chop some routes and make people have to toprope, because what is better than toproping? NOTHING! But he is right. I shouldn't cling to oldschool ways. But seriously, new climbers suck. Hard. If they ever wanted to climb as hardcore as I was back in the good old days, they would skip the first TWO bolts. But then you might get sick looking at them as you go by and puke at the disgusting sight of a bolt and then fall down and break your leg because you weren't clipped in. Sure would be an insult to the pride.
    By clarkbeau
    From: boulder
    Oct 17, 2014
    rating: 5.11a/b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c

    Pretty fun route. Skip all the comments on bolting, and just go do it, whether you stick clip the 1st bolt or bypass it. I clipped the bolt for the onsight, but I feel good enough to skip it from now on. Who gives a shit?!?!
    By L G
    From: Boulder, CO
    Jun 28, 2015

    Start on small, but sufficient, feet for the bouldery start. Recommend stick clipping the first bolt. Glad this route was brought up-to-date.
    By Peter Beal
    From: Boulder Colorado
    Jul 11, 2016

    Did this today and kind of have to agree that the first bolt seems pointless. Ground up, it protects nothing important, and it seems easy enough to top-rope it if you want. My advice would be to bring one bouldering pad, especially with the recent trail work, as the landing is reasonably flat and broad.
    By Crackson
    Oct 16, 2016
    rating: 5.11b/c 6c+ 23 VIII- 24 E4 6a

    I felt the bottom boulder was no harder than V2, and there are at least three different ways to finish the route above the final bulge. The direct finish is the hardest and makes the route at least 11c, going right is easier.

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