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Help Fight Dangerous Products on Amazon from a Dangerously Ignorant Seller
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Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: The narrow exit right after Mid-evil Chamber, Bill...
Was looking for a replacement dynamic rope on Amazon (boo I know I should buy local) and found what looked like a too good to be true deal for a nice looking rope. However with just minimal effort I found out that this was clearly mislabeled garbage. I guess this irks me because I'm fairly new to climbing and feel I could have been naive enough at one time to fall for this product. I know that it would have been on me for not doing basic homework. Anyway, I decided to raise my concerns with the seller who replied fairly comically. If you have some free time I would greatly appreciate a little support in informing naive Amazonians that this product is not labelled correctly and could kill them. The seller is obviously using zombie accounts to give this and other mislabeled products 5 stars. Here is the link to the product:

amazon.com/Dynamic-Single-Rope...
Kevin Christensen
Joined Nov 19, 2015
68 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: The narrow exit right after Mid-evil Chamber, Bill...
This is my comments and the sellers comment:
ME:
Not labeled as UIAA Certified! Also does not provide the rope elongation ratio. What are you really buying? The Max safe load described is under 5KN, most are close to double that (HUGE difference). I would be extremely cautious about calling this a “professional rope, rock climbing rope”. From the grammar and dates all 4 previous comments on this product were probably written by the same person. Do not trust this product to save your life in a fall! Please spend a little extra money and buy something that’s rated to save you butt should you fall, isn’t that the point after all.

Seller:
Hi, did you ever buy our dynamic rope? I did not find your record, so you do not have right to judge our rope and you do not have the right to ask other buyer to NOT BUY.
See you give us 1 star with such unbeliveable evidence, you are NOT a good man at all!! who will belive such bad people!!!
The dynamic climbing rope is 12mm diameter, very solid and strong, the weight for 30meter is around 3kg, we have test it before we produce it.
We export the dynamic rope for many, we confidence our quality.

Me:
Wow...okay "Amazon Customer" (totally legit name by the way). I love how there seems to be the same multiple accounts who give 5 stars on many of your products.
I do not write this because I am "not a good man" as you claim. I write it to protect someone who is ignorant of the risk of your product as much as you appear to be, before it ends up seriously injuring or killing someone just because you want to sell untested ropes with rock climbing in the title.
FIRST of all, I never said not to buy your product. I simply pointed out that it was lacking CRITICAL safety certifications for the activity of Rock Climbing. You claim in the title of your product that it is meant for the act of rock climbing. So I decided to point out the fact to other buyers that it is missing UIAA safety certification (among other specifications). That's not a "judgment" on your product it's pointing out a FACT that your product has not been tested and proven safe by the international governing body of climbing and mountaineering. The UIAA tests products in order to ensure their safety during the type of falls that occur while engaging in activities like rock climbing. These independent tests (not performed by the people selling the product) include testing a ropes max load for safety in a real life fall (including factor 1 and factor 2 falls) & its ability to protect a fall over a sharp edge.
May I ask how you tested your rope, as you claim in your reply to my original comment?
In your comment you also claim that your rope is very "solid and strong", and claims to have a max load of 1102lbs which equates to 4.9kN of force. While that may sound impressive, it would be considerably WEAK when compared to other climbing equipment. For example:
Standard Carabiner has a Major Axis strength of 24kN = 5395.41 lbs. That's a 19.1kN or 4,293lbs difference from your product.
7mm Accessory Cord & climbing spec webbing have the max load tensile strength of 10.4kN 2,360lbs & 17Kn 4046lbs respectfully. Both are double or triple your product.
As you see by the examples above the fact that your rope is 12mm thick does not make it "solid" or "strong" as you suggest, least not when it comes to rock climbing. Lead climbing is usually performed with dynamic ropes of which is the type of rope you claim to be selling (you never did provide information on your rope elongation ratio) which can result in a factor 2 fall. A factor 2 fall of a 76 kg climber can generate a force in excess of 5.1kN, and your product is rated at 4.9kN. These are simply facts, not purely unfounded judgments.
Please stop misleading Amazon Customers with your product title before you seriously injure or kills someone.
I welcome your feedback on my "unbelievable evidence".
Kevin Christensen
Joined Nov 19, 2015
68 points
Aug 2, 2016
I wonder if the seller is really Olivier Gourmas? What a fraud. FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Considering how many of the reviews use the term "paddy" (and seem to be written in similar pidgen English) I agree that they are probably bogus reviews. PRRose
From Boulder
Joined Feb 11, 2006
2 points
Aug 2, 2016
I just posted my review on Amazon. Thanks for bringing this up, Kevin. Hope someone doesn't get hurt by using this rope. FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo:
One star coming right up... SinRopa
From parts unknown
Joined Sep 4, 2013
107 points
Aug 2, 2016
This vendor sells other ropes, too, including this 10.5 mm static rope:

amazon.com/Sterling-Rock-Climb...

Notice that the word "Sterling" (a reputable rope company) is on the URL. When I go to Sterling's website. their static and low-stretch ropes have 30-40 kn breaking strength.
FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Cathedral Peak!
"I am a beginning rock climber now and I got this rope for rappelling. it's 11mm thick enough. Used to be a professional tree climber. Now that I'm teaching my kids to rappel,it paddy and good hand feeling, it's very good and safe for outdoor climbing, hiking and rappelling. Really good quality with low price , will come again if need in the future." Simon W
From Salt Lake City, UT
Joined May 18, 2013
97 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: La Cosita, Right, 5.9. For the record, i'm not pul...
Good work team!

Keep posting the bad reviews, it could literally save a life!
violetteta8
From Sacramento, CA
Joined Jul 11, 2014
90 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: The narrow exit right after Mid-evil Chamber, Bill...
Well hey even if you don't want to buy their rope you can look at all the other awesome products they sell like their super sturdy sex chair

amazon.com/Elastic-Sex-Chair-B...

sexy waist butt lifter anyone???

amazon.com/Fullness-Butt-Lifte...,

Looks like there were a bondage rope supplier gone professional climbing gear outfitter. Sounds like a good, safe, and logical transition.
Kevin Christensen
Joined Nov 19, 2015
68 points
Aug 2, 2016
In addition to posting a warning review, you can also 'report incorrect product information' just below the description on the Amazon page. Nathaniel Dray
Joined Sep 30, 2012
36 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Cathedral Peak!
Kevin Christensen wrote:
Well hey even if you don't want to buy their rope you can look at all the other awesome products they sell like their super sturdy sex chair amazon.com/Elastic-Sex-Chair-B...


You'll need the rope to keep you off the deck when the sex chair breaks =P
Simon W
From Salt Lake City, UT
Joined May 18, 2013
97 points
Aug 2, 2016
Kevin Christensen wrote:
Well hey even if you don't want to buy their rope you can look at all the other awesome products they sell like their super sturdy sex chair


What's it rated? :)

The bad reviews on Amazon are really adding up. On the rope, not the sex chair.
FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Top of Rewritten, El Dorado
I saw this and then called Amazon to report the seller. From what I understand somebody from their Marketplace team will take that report and look into the seller a bit more closely.

I will keep you guys updated on what I find out.
JRM89
From New Haven, CT
Joined Feb 17, 2015
348 points
Aug 2, 2016
Just posted a negative review but didn't see where I could 'report incorrect product information' as Nathaniel suggested. Peter T
Joined May 1, 2016
16 points
Aug 2, 2016
Check out this review on a different rope they sell. This was posted back on June and I've posted BabyLovest's (vendor)response:

Item:

amazon.com/Sterling-Rock-Climb...

Buyer's Review:

I bought this rope because the price was alot lower then other ropes I was looking at. After a 20 foot drt climb into a tree using this rope for the first time i had a outer jacket/inner core failure that caused the ropes outer jacket to bind on decent and jam at the bottom of the friction hitch. I was unable to decend. I had to have another line tossed to me and change ropes in mid air. It's almost like the inner core was stiched to the outer jacket. If i had not had someone with me it could have been alot worse. Will be returning and buying a higher quality rope from a reputable brand.

Vendor Response:

Hi Anthony,
I have sold this climbing rope for many, and I know what I sell, if you said it's defective and dangerous, can you provide the prove, please upload the picture and show to us and other buyers, I am sure you do not dare. Because you know what you said is lie!!! Why you such bad to get other competitve money to do this bad review. But I am sure other buyers will not belive such a lier. I am sure American do not have such bad quality buyer!!! GOD bless you!!!
FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: cartoon
Good looking out.

Will be contributing to the cause.
Who Dat
From Spinning Rock, MW
Joined Dec 11, 2014
6 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Top of Rewritten, El Dorado
That's what freaked me out and brought me to call them. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea if others called Amazon too. 1 (888) 280-4331. Although they cannot ban a seller without more, they can apparently get somebody on their end to look into it more (and presumably result in a ban). JRM89
From New Haven, CT
Joined Feb 17, 2015
348 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Although I'm not in favor of the seller you really should get your facts much more in order before you blast someone on the Internet. Your understanding of climbing gear ratings is poor at best. Comparing carabiner strength to rope strength? Talking about factor one and factor to Falls? I could go on but get your facts straight before you blast someone publicly. You are providing misinformation as well. Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
999 points
Aug 2, 2016
Greg D wrote:
Although I'm not in favor of the seller you really should get your facts much more in order before you blast someone on the Internet. Your understanding of climbing gear ratings is poor at best. Comparing carabiner strength to rope strength? Talking about factor one and factor to Falls? I could go on but get your facts straight before you blast someone publicly. You are providing misinformation as well.


How about the seller advertising a "maximum safe load of 1102 pounds" for a climbing rope? Does that rating work for you?

I think you should do some more homework and focus your energy on the seller, instead of picking apart the complaints.
FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Top of Rewritten, El Dorado
That's a fair point (I mean that genuinely). I did dig in a bit further, so let me offer a few points:

Climbing gear sold in the United States almost always has at least one independent certification. Here is an overview of the most common: see e.g., rockandice.com/gear-guide-tips....

The "Sterling" rope (amazon.com/Sterling-Rock-Climb... is clearly not a Sterling rope (sterlingrope.com/c/climbing_dy..., not least because Sterling does not offer a 10.5 MM climbing rope!!!

They claim the rope is rated to about 1100 pound of force (4.8 KN) but climbing ropes are typically rated significantly above that (see, e.g., rockandice.com/lates-news/Clim... you could also look at other single-rated ropes to compare). Of course, to the first point above, we don't have an independent verification that it can even withstand that much force.

Finally, the seller's choice to revert immediately to personal insults and anger in the replies to comments outlined above seem to suggest that the seller is hiding something and/or is not capable of offering actual substantiation to his claim that this is a climbing rope.

I think it is fair nonetheless to perhaps choose to refrain from posting bad reviews (which is in some senses a misrepresentation as, to your point, we don't actually have the product in our hands), but it is equally fair to alert the climbing community and/or Amazon about a potential risk. How does that sound?
JRM89
From New Haven, CT
Joined Feb 17, 2015
348 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: wicked jacket boner in the bugs
I tacked one on for good measure as well. Matt Carroll
Joined Dec 9, 2013
42 points
Administrator
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: OMG!
I contacted Amazon. The only way to bring this to the attention of the correct department is an overwhelming percentage of negative reviews. Keep posting!
Good of the OP to see this AND post. Ya, we're all gunna die, but let's not die on this!
WTF is Paddy, anyway. Other than a rice field, where they will bury you when you fall on this POS
Muscrat
Joined Oct 27, 2011
3,553 points
Aug 2, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Stairway to Heaven
It's not just climbing ropes. "Yimeis" also sells harnesses, helmets, carabiners, belay devices and daisy chains, all made by "BabyLovest", none of them CE or UIAA certified. Scary. Here's a list of everything they sell as climbing gear: goo.gl/ZKm1E5. Martin le Roux
From Superior, CO
Joined Jul 16, 2003
271 points
Aug 2, 2016
Muscrat wrote:
WTF is Paddy, anyway.




FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Joined Nov 19, 2009
284 points
Aug 2, 2016
Ok... I'm really curious - anyone have any idea what this English language butcher thinks they are trying to say with "this is a good paddy rope"? It's in many of the "5-star" reviews. Em Cos
From Boulder, CO
Joined Apr 21, 2010
11 points


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