Hauling on multipitch routes with half ropes

Looking for clear info on the best way to haul bag up a multipitch sport/trad or alpine route using half ropes.

For clarity, where I climb the sport routes often require gear anyway and are sparingly bolted. So most sport are really a mix. And yes, I realize some people just climb w/ the pack so lets skip those comments. Anyway....

My guess:

• Leader ties into both half ropes;
• Follower ties into one half rope, other end tied to bag
• Leader leads pitch.
• Setup anchor
• Bring up follower on 1 half rope.
• Follower reaches belay having cleaned meaning I can haul bag on the 2nd rope.
• Next pitch....

So, the follower is only tied into one half rope. I guess that's maybe a down side? Following on just one half shouldn't be a problem, particularly for routes where falls are unlikely anyway.

What say you?

I say hauling a bag with a dynamic half rope will really suck.

Hehehehe.... You n 1

Sounds like a plan to spend a good amount of time rapping back down to unstick bags.

Better to haul between climbers so the second can tend the bag if needed, kind of hard to do that with your system.

I'd just get a 7mm static line...

So in my scenario then, with 2 climbers on half ropes, what's the alternative? Is there no way to do it without using a 3rd rope for hauling?

I climb with half ropes almost exclusively, but have never hauled a pack except for very occasional short sections where the belayer just drops down a loop. I'm not allowed to say what we do, but you can guess...

The system you propose is ok but has one possibly serious drawback: if the pack gets stuck anywhere, the second isn't there to free it.

The only alternative I can think of is to belay with a guide plate and repeatedly haul the pack up to the next clipped point. When the second gets to that point, they unclip and the pack can be hauled again. Considering the friction some folks experience just pulling slack through guide plates, this might seem rather strenuous, so perhaps a small progress-capture pulley would be a better idea (you'll still need the guide plate so that belaying and hauling can be managed simultaneously).

Remember that some of the advantages of half ropes will be lost if the second is only climbing on one of them. The leader's clipping options could be restricted because of this.

If you are determined to haul a pack pitch after pitch, you're better off with a thin single and a not-too-thin tag line.

I did an alpine route with a squeeze chimney (Stanley Bergner on Prusik) and we were climbing with a single rope. I lead the pitch tied into the middle mark and used one side of the rope to haul the pack as my second climbed on the other. She encouraged the pack when it got stuck once. I had both stands on belay on a guide plate. It worked great and climbing that with a pack would have sucked.

Very specific application, but it was a good trick to have in your pocket.

(Note you can only lead half the length of your rope, not an issue in our case)

I know we're not supposed to say this but John has already opened the door and I'm gonna boldly chime in: do not haul a pack on long one-day free climbs. If you do, better fill it with bivvy gear because sooner or later that pack will force you to bivvy and it won't be a one-day climb any more.

If we are speaking of short climbs and no one wants the encumbrance of a pack, hauling is an option (but really guys, man up whatever your gender is). In that case, the best approach is a single rope and tag line as I suggested earlier.

Not mentioned and perhaps not relevant is that if the rock is chossy, hauling a pack is especially bad and you can't have the second underneath it as I described above.

If there are chimneys or other features that will be hard for the second to navigate with a pack, then install a tether that runs from the pack haul loops to the harness belay loop. The pack should be put on last, over all carried slings, when the second starts out, and cleaned slings should be racked, not dropped over the shoulder. This insures that the second can just drop the pack in order to navigate the obstacle at hand. Make sure to double-check the connections at each stance so that the second doesn't end up tossing the pack to the bottom of the climb.

rgold wrote: If there are chimneys or other features that will be hard for the second to navigate with a pack, then install a tether that runs from the pack haul loops to the harness belay loop.

This works perfectly, is fast, keeps the climber above rock fall potential from hauling a bag above. Clipping to your belay loop is better than going to your haul loop on the rear of the harness (if it's rated), that will throw your balance off.

On the north ridge of Stuart last week I did this while leading the first pitches awkward squeeze chimney, no way to get in that thing with a pack on. I had a sling ready to go and clipped to my belay loop, once I hit the chimney I just dropped and kept climbing, threw my pack back on once I was on the face. This let me link in to the second pitch instead of making a belay just just to haul our packs.

First of all, I'm not talking about hauling a gigantic bag, rather a 25 to 30L bag. And yes, I know, it'd be possible to carry. Just trying to see if hauling is a realistic/practical option.

So to summarize the points:

1) Don't haul a pack at all
2) Use the system I proposed, potential issues noted
3) Use a single rope and static 7mm tag line to haul

I'm not set on hauling a pack no matter what, so don't misunderstand. I've just gotten into multipitch and after a few shorter routes, want to move to longer ones and was wondering about the best way to bring stuff, especially in the alpine for all day climbs.

SwabianAmi wrote:I've just gotten into multipitch and after a few shorter routes, want to move to longer ones and was wondering about the best way to bring stuff, especially in the alpine for all day climbs.

The best way is for the 2nd to climb with a pack on. And for the team to limit how much extra shit they carry. There are lots of small packs out there designed for exactly this sort of situation.

SwabianAmi wrote:First of all, I'm not talking about hauling a gigantic bag, rather a 25 to 30L bag. And yes, I know, it'd be possible to carry. Just trying to see if hauling is a realistic/practical option. So to summarize the points: 1) Don't haul a pack at all 2) Use the system I proposed, potential issues noted 3) Use a single rope and static 7mm tag line to haul I'm not set on hauling a pack no matter what, so don't misunderstand. I've just gotten into multipitch and after a few shorter routes, want to move to longer ones and was wondering about the best way to bring stuff, especially in the alpine for all day climbs.

One thing about the short haul method described above is that any more than a small weight really feels heavy...it can be used for very short sections.

Personally, i would think first about what you intend to bring with you. Unless you doing a new route, water,a shell and walk off shoes ??? That's not much.

I have used a 10mm single and a 7mm tag line for many years and think it's a very good system..For a big bag like a wall bag, a bigger tag line is better,but as a long day set up, this works really well

And of course hauling kinda sucks anyway...did it in Yosemite 2x and never again...go faster !!

SwabianAmi wrote: I've just gotten into multipitch and after a few shorter routes, want to move to longer ones and was wondering about the best way to bring stuff, especially in the alpine for all day climbs.

I've done a some grade IV/V alpine routes, the most important thing IMO is that both partners get a pack that fits them and carry their own gear. The "leader pack" idea with the follower weighted down heavily just doesn't work out. You're spot on with your idea for pack size, I use a 22L pack and can bring the rope in the pack on the approach. A lot of people climb with far too large of packs.

I would recommend reading Dane's blog here about packs, there's some good info in here:
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Don't forget the pack on a sling off your belay loop, it's much faster than hauling for a short chimney or offwidth in a corner pitch.

IMO avoid chimneys and shit rock..much better off

SwabianAmi wrote:First of all, I'm not talking about hauling a gigantic bag, rather a 25 to 30L bag.

For an all-day rock climb, think more like 16L (BD Bullet, Patagonia Linked Pack) to 18 L (Petzl Bug, REI Flash 18). If approach shoes come along on the climb, I prefer to have each climber carry them on their harness. The pack is then going to be something like 10 lbs, depending on the amount of water carried and how much insulation beyond a rain shell/wind shirt is called for. You don't haul a 10 lb pack, you climb with it.

And then there are traverses. Sure don't want to haul a pack on those...

Just recently hauled a 10lb pack, it was totally worth it. Climbing with a pack on a hard pitch seriously blows, often times when the pitch is short it is totally worth it and easy. Keep the pack light enough that you don't need a progress capture device. I like the idea of tying in half way, that would work quite often, especially with a 70M rope

Jon Rhoderick wrote:Just recently hauled a 10lb pack, it was totally worth it. Climbing with a pack on a hard pitch seriously blows, often times when the pitch is short it is totally worth it and easy. Keep the pack light enough that you don't need a progress capture device. I like the idea of tying in half way, that would work quite often, especially with a 70M rope

Indeed climbing with a pack does blow and I too "haul" on hard pitches. However, bringing a full hauling kit is silly. I use 6mm cord (which doubles as the tag line to get back down), and the leader just hand-over-hands it to the belay. If the leader cant do that because it's too heavy, you're bringing waaaay too much crap. This benefits the leader as well because he can drink and eat a snack while belaying you, thus saving time by eliminating the need for him to wait until the second finishes the pitch before obtaining access to the food. I wouldent recommend doing this on less-than-vertical pitches though because those ultra-light climbing packs will get shredded to nothing in little time if you drag them all over the slab with stuff in them. On vertical pitches where they are free hanging, it's not an issue.

Thanks for all the advice here. I'm not sure I know exactly what I'll end up doing, definitely thinking even more about what I actually need and don't/ But all the various points have absolutely helped me better consider/think through what to do in the future.