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Hand Jive T 
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Who's On First S,TR 

Hand Jive 

YDS: 5.9- French: 5c Ewbanks: 17 UIAA: VI ZA: 16 British: HVS 4c

Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 60'
Original:  YDS: 5.8 French: 5b Ewbanks: 16 UIAA: VI- ZA: 15 British: HVS 4c [details]
FA: Jack Roberts, Don McCarthy 1976
Page Views: 12,397
Submitted By: Andrew Gram on Mar 17, 2004

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (199)
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Shayne Durfee on the Hand Jive, Photo by Adam Clar...

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Hand Jive is generally approached by climbing Crack in the Woods first, or you can climb the chimney leading up to the crack. It is the appealing-looking thin hands crack above and right of Crack in the Woods.

From Crack in the Woods, downclimb into the chimney and undercling out right into the crack system. Liebacking and jamming leads to a bolted rap anchor, which will just barely get you to the ground with one 60m rope.

This pitch felt harder and more insecure to me than Crack in the Woods. I'd give this 8+ or 9-.


Stoppers, small cams to 3"

Photos of Hand Jive Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Aaron Weaver leading the second pitch of Crack in ...
Aaron Weaver leading the second pitch of Crack in ...
Rock Climbing Photo: This is a really cool line. Nice views.
This is a really cool line. Nice views.
Rock Climbing Photo: Frank shadow boxing on a beautiful Jan day.
Frank shadow boxing on a beautiful Jan day.
Rock Climbing Photo: Jivin' on a warm spring evening! (Photo by Tony La...
Jivin' on a warm spring evening! (Photo by Tony La...
Rock Climbing Photo: Hand Jive - fun climb on a nice crack!
Hand Jive - fun climb on a nice crack!
Rock Climbing Photo: Croft on Hand Jive
Croft on Hand Jive
Rock Climbing Photo: great climb for cold but sunny weather
great climb for cold but sunny weather
Rock Climbing Photo: Looking up from below the Chimney.  You can see th...
Looking up from below the Chimney. You can see th...
Rock Climbing Photo: Rob nearing the wet upper part of the crack.
Rob nearing the wet upper part of the crack.
Rock Climbing Photo: A little visual-beta for the tricky start of this ...
A little visual-beta for the tricky start of this ...
Rock Climbing Photo: Nate Layton working his way up Hand Jive.
Nate Layton working his way up Hand Jive.
Rock Climbing Photo: The infamous start from Crack in the Woods.
The infamous start from Crack in the Woods.

Comments on Hand Jive Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Oct 2, 2017
By Nathan Fisher
Apr 6, 2005
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

Again, Andrew hits the nail on the head. A little insecure, right around the bulge, and also the step over to start it was exhillarating. It was a little bit wet still near the top. If you climb Crack in the Woods, climb this also.
By vincent pierce
Sep 13, 2005
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

This is definately the 5.9 and Crack in Woods is the 5.8. Pretty fun route using lots of medium gear. I would recommend starting this route from its base at the bottom of the chimney. I downclimbed the chimney from the top of Crack in the Woods and leading it this way means you have to climb about ten to fifteen feet before placing. This could set you up for a nasty weird toprope slam into the chimney wall at what may be the crux of the route (undercling flake to the crack).
By d-know
From: electric lady land
Jan 25, 2006
rating: 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

love the start, kind of unique in the canyon. any body else contemplate jumping into the crack from the top of crack in the woods.
By Polly
Jul 13, 2006

Crack in the woods and Hand Jive are both still in the shade until around 1:00pm- makes a great late morning two pitches. Any later than 12:30-1-ish though Hand Jive gets hot like the rest of them. Hand Jive is a great crack- it's got a little of everything. The couple moves past the undercling start are definitely the crux (for an average height girl).
By Brian in SLC
From: Sandy, Utah
May 21, 2007
rating: 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

Nah, not bad for the second if you wait just a bit before placing pro after the step across. Also, if you use a rabbit runner on the first piece, then sling the second piece long, if your partner does come off at the step off from the top of Crack in the Woods, then the TR will be fully deployed and there won't be much if any swing. This route is 5.8, C in the W is 5.9, IMHO.
By Floridaputz
From: Oakland Park, Florida
Jul 1, 2008

Beautiful pitch. very sustained. The earily moves are sweet, you are basicaly on Top rope when starting this pitch if belaying off crack in the woods. I agree with the previous comments. Of course the higher you get before placeing your 1st piece the better.
By Aaron Collins
From: Santan Valley, AZ
Jan 20, 2009

I met Frank from Connecticut(he was out here skiing for a couple months) up under the Bong Eater on Jan 18th 08. The rock was perfect and the winds calm. We came up and got him on Hand Jive the next day and TRed the crack on the face. We had the same horrible ski conditions but perfect LCC winter climbing weather. Both were very cool climbs.
By notmyname
From: Sandy, UT
Apr 15, 2009

I'm not sure but I think the undercling fell off. May be a lot harder/sketchier now
By Woodson
From: Park City, Ut.
Jul 4, 2009

I would agree with Michael..I started this on the flake and got stumped-it ran out and the move to get to the small double cracks was way too sketchy for me. After rapping off Crack In The Woods I ran into another climber and he said he tried it recently and backed off as well. Maybe i'm a wuss, I dunno. Anyone else climb this recently?
By Ben Folsom
Jul 4, 2009
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

That is always a committing and tricky move right there.
By Woodson
From: Park City, Ut.
Jul 4, 2009

10 4 Ben. It's just me-I'll give it another go at some point...committing and very tricky.
By tytonic
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Jul 7, 2009

Never climbed before the flake fell off, but I did it last week. The move into the double crack from the broken flake is very committing. I ended up doing a left hand-foot match while holding myself on a single finger crystal with my right hand. My biggest surprise was the bulge crux above the double cracks. I was placing .75 camalots in the area described in the guide as "hands." Do you know anyone with hands the size of a .75 camalot?
By Boissal
From: Small Lake, UT
Jul 7, 2009
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

Agreed, that move is spooky no matter how you look at it.
And this is not the BD catalogue, hands = anything from rattly #3 down to .75 barely-get-the-knuckles-in.
By Woodson
From: Park City, Ut.
Jul 7, 2009

I think it's probably the same flake as it always has been, as it was my first attempt at the route, I just need to bring my A game and figure out the magic for that move. But a spicy one it is.....
By Marq Diamond
Oct 23, 2009
rating: 5.9+ 5c 17 VI 17 E1 5a

If crack in the woods is 5.9, this route is 10b. There is no way to downplay the fact this route is much, much harder than crack in the woods.

If you want to argue that crack in the woods is harder, you're either a liar, or full of shit.

The bottom crimper moves felt like 5.10 to me, not to mention they are poorly protected. Call me a wuss if you want; this route is probably as hard as coffin or sasquatch in my opinion.

There is just a general lack of consistency here. If you're going to rate crack of the woods 5.9, how can you honestly justify rating the route RIGHT next to it 5.8?
By Tosh Peters
From: Park City, UT
Nov 6, 2009
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

I had an amazing time with this route. I did it as one long pitch up the chimney because the start from the top of Crack in the woods looks sketch balls. Ive done green A, Sasquatch, bushwack and cranial profilactic and this felt harder than all of them, so sustained. bring extra green and red camalot sizes if you dont like to run it out.
By Brian in SLC
From: Sandy, Utah
Nov 11, 2009
rating: 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

Climbed it today...and...yeah, its spicy but I don't think its gotten a bunch harder over the years. One thing I noticed was I usually protect the chimney up high prior to the committing step over with a hand-ish sized cam on the left side, but, that crack seems have have disappeared.

Anywhoo...maybe 5.8+. Easier to clip the upper (old) anchor on Crack in the Wood, long, and have your partner belay from up there too. Then, step across, almost on a TR, dial the feet in on lower angle friction bits, and, have that right foot hit that flat horizontal to the right. Helps to be tall, as, from that right foot hold I can pro up that short little vertical crack from there, and, off to the races. Then, when you have a solid piece or three, have the partner unclip the extended sling off the old Crack in the Woods anchor and the rope drag will be minimal. Up ya go.

Much of the crack is good hand sized even where the pro is .75 or so camalots. Milk the pods. Cheers!
By W.S.
From: Montana
Jun 16, 2010
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

I led this last weekend after leading Crack In The Woods. I ended up downclimbing the chimney quite a bit before moving over to Hand Jive, and I felt that committing to the other wall was the mental crux for me. I thought this was about as hard as Crack In The Woods, and both were great pitches that protect very well.
By MarkJ
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Aug 7, 2010

Tricky, committing and 5.9 anywhere, but in LCC.
By Kingspeakwarrior
From: West Jordan UT.
Jun 4, 2011
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

Definitely 5.9 The first move took me 4 trys.
By Brian G
Jun 6, 2011
rating: 5.9- 5c 17 VI 16 HVS 4c

Kingspeakwarrior - No mention of your fall from that starting move being belayed from the top of Crack in the Woods. You're the only one I've known or heard of to take the feared whip (I should mention this was onsight). It didn't seem too bad but the rope took a good beating with a core shot. A fun route and way more heady than actually hard for this move. I still give it a 5.9 rating for sure. Be sure to remember your .5 to .75 size for the bulge! Fun route!
By Charlie S
From: Ogden, UT
Oct 15, 2011
rating: 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

Fun route! Really not that bad. Keep walking down the gully until you find the undercling. All the moves are there.
By Stan Pitcher
From: SLC, UT
Oct 24, 2011
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c PG13

Definitely harder than Crack in the woods - although that one can be real hard if you don't climb it right! :) There are at least three ways to do the start. After getting to the crack, I back clean up to the crux roof to reduce rope drag and to make it easier for the second. Great evening light on it this time of the year!
By Andrewprime1 Arredondo
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 9, 2012
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

This is a pretty sick crack, definitely worth a shot. The beginning is not too hard, and the only reason I gave it a 8+ is because I was a little sketched out climbing above a very under-camed .5, still new to trad climbing... Still sick, can't wait to go climb it again!
By Alex Quitiquit
From: Salt Lake City
Apr 10, 2012
rating: 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c

8+ is a decent grade for the route. The first few moves on Crack in the Woods felt just as funky (awkward ringlocks) so i'd give them the same grade. If you down climb the chimney a few feet but not to the base of the flake, but rather right into the jug at the top of the flake, the moves out of it feel really mellow. Just mantle up with a left hand foot match and work into the double crack, think slab climbing and use good footwork. After that it's a combination of liebacking, handjamming pods, and yummy footwork. .75 BD seems to be the key, so bring at least 2. Don't fear the first few moves, or the hearsay about them, they are really cruiser.
By Ryan Goslin
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Jun 17, 2012

I was a bit sketched about the downclimb from crack in the woods, but cleaned some dirt out of a crack 10 feet to the right of the anchors. There is a bomber red c3 placement that puts you on top rope for the initial moves to the crack. Plus eliminates the risk of a serious swing, just be sure to put a runner on it. Great route
By davids86
From: Sandy, UT
Oct 29, 2012

Hand to foot match is the key! Love this one!
By Mike Marmar
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 12, 2015

If you are feeling sketched out on the move to get to the double cracks, you can get an excellent #5 (gray) peenut in the small crack on the right.
By benb
Oct 29, 2015

Mike called it. I found this placement for the first time the other day, not sure how I missed it last time. Maybe Ryan's cleaning brought it out? Just past the step across, perfect micronut placement above the broken hold in the small crack, and then you are on toprope for that balance-y step up to get into the finger cracks.
By justa beater
From: sandy utah
Mar 27, 2016

if you lead this climb from the chains on crack in the woods you're robbing yourself of what is a very exciting move to establish yourself on the under cling flake and then the Crux move in my opinion there's no other way to lead this then from the chimney at the bottom all the way up and not having the security of being anchored the bomber chains it would detract a lot from the face value of the climb and would not be nearly as adventurous, it's a gear climb not a mixed climb leave the chains and do it ground up there is gear in and above the crux.
By Greg Gavin
From: SLC, UT
Sep 14, 2016

Just stem across the gully into the crack at the bottom. What's the big deal?
By Tyler Needham
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Nov 21, 2016
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

The crux at the beginning felt far harder than anything on Crack in the Woods, which felt soft for 5.8. This is much harder than any 8 I've done in LCC, and harder than a couple 9's as well. Also, the thin flake for the hand/foot match crux move is terrifying, has anyone whipped on that thing?
By Tim G.
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Nov 21, 2016
rating: 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a

I definitely agree about the bottom crux out of the undercling being terrifying with the potential for a nasty top rope swing into the chimney behind you. I first tried a cam in the bottom pocket of the flake, but I'm pretty sure that thing would have broken off the flake if I fell. I didn't want to ruin the route, so instead I opted for traversing far right and clipping a bolt from No Jive Arete. It still would have been an ugly fall but not nearly as bad as swinging backwards. I think the best way is just to do the move on top rope and not fall though. Maybe next time I'll have the guts to try it.
By Crag Turkey
From: Holladay, UT
Sep 28, 2017

Not as bad as everyone makes it seem. If you stem low and end up below the flake I think this feels a bit more like a V2 boulder problem with a shitty fall, but really only for the hand foot match. Seems like one could*** make the step across the void above the flake at 8+, this would be pretty airy and you'd be super rad like Greg to just commit to it, long reach, but not necessarily height dependent. Every time I try this I opt for the lower variation, but maybe that's because I did it this way the first time and cannot break the habit. Location and rock quality make this a classic moderate in little that shouldn't be missed!
By Greg Gavin
From: SLC, UT
Oct 2, 2017

I'm only 5' 11" crag turkey. The stem works every time for me!

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