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A Little More Hoof S 
Drive By Shooting S 
Flake Out S 
Forest S 
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General Mayhem S 
Green Thumb S 
Major Distraction S 
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Road Rage S 
Woof Toof Noof Roof S 

Forest 

YDS: 5.10b/c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b

   
Type:  Sport, 1 pitch, 62'
Original:  YDS: 5.10b/c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b [details]
FA: Cam Burns, Mike Schillaci on gear in the late 80s. Retro-bolted in 2011 by unknown person.
Season: Spring, Summer, Fall
Page Views: 3,240
Submitted By: Jason Halladay on Sep 17, 2006

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (67)
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Pinching the cool tufa-like rails on Forest. July ...

Description 

A steep, featured, route with cool tufa-like rails on the far right side of Gateway Rock. Figure out how to pull up off the ground to a chalked-up tooth and then get to a crack where a .5 camalot previously protected steep moves. Now a couple of bolts protect it. Continue up on nicely featured face and crack climbing passing a number of bolts as the crack gets wider (fist size) and steeper. You don't need crack skills, however, as there are plenty of nice features to grasp along the way.

This route was initially climbed on gear and rated 5.11b by the FA party. Consensus suggests it's easier and in the spring of 2011 the route was bolted by an unknown party and a anchor added so gear is no longer necessary. The gear was pretty marginal and this is a very fun line so it sees quite a bit more traffic now with the bolts. It's not clear whether or not the bolter tried contacting the FA party or even realized this was an established line (although given the length, fun moves and busy location, one should have suspected it had been climbed previously.)

Location 

Far right side of Gateway Rock just right of Road Rage.

Listed as route #7 on route topo photo for Las Conchas Gateway Rock.

Protection 

9 bolts to its own anchor with steel carabiners on chain.

Used to require BD camalots .4 to #3. Doubles in the .75, 1 and 2. Maybe some medium nuts too. Used to be you would need to move left to the anchors on Road Rage at the top without much issue.


Photos of Forest Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Fall climbing on "Forest". October 2011....
Fall climbing on "Forest". October 2011....
Rock Climbing Photo: Entering the crux area. July 2011.
Entering the crux area. July 2011.
Rock Climbing Photo: On Forest on a fine November day well before it wa...
On Forest on a fine November day well before it wa...

Comments on Forest Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Jul 16, 2017
By Karl Kiser
Apr 1, 2008

This note is good for historical use but the rock isn't good and I have been told that rock has broken during a fall.
By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From: Los Alamos, NM
Nov 22, 2008

I added this route to MP so I can't give an "opinion rating" but having led it today I'd call it 5.10b R. The R is on account of the poor rock for pro. The placements were plentiful but I had a hard time mentally committing to the thought that the rock in the cracks would hold up if I fell. I ended traversing left a couple of times to clip bolts on Road Rage with double-length runners as a backup if the pro failed. Otherwise, it's a fun line with entertaining climbing.
By Chris Wenker
From: Santa Fe
Jun 11, 2011
rating: 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b

Freshly bolted; appears to have happened sometime in the last 3 weeks?
By HoseBeats
Jun 12, 2011
rating: 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b

Very fresh bolts. There is an extra second bolt; clip the left one. Much easier than 11a, 10b?.
By Eric Whitbeck
Jun 13, 2011

The drills can never be silent.
By William Penner
From: The 505
Jun 13, 2011

The drills can never be silent

That piece of stone is already way over-bolted. Go find a new area or develop other sections of Las Conchas that are less used. More importantly don't bolt an existing line.

W
By Michael Wheat
Jun 24, 2011

I had no idea this was an established route prior to seeing the bolts. Based on the poor rock quality I wouldn't have thought about leading this on trad. I guess I would be ticked if I was into leading routes with poor rock quality on gear. But you can always trad climb at Diablo. The Side-by-Side bolting at the bottom dosen't make any sense to me.
By Josh Smith
Nov 10, 2011

I second the opinion on not adding bolts to an existing line without consulting the FA party. I found the gear adequate on this route.
By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From: Los Alamos, NM
Nov 26, 2011

I swapped out the first five hangers on this route with colored/painted hangers today since the route is in a high non-climber-traffic area.
By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From: Los Alamos, NM
Nov 27, 2011

JeremyA wrote:
You should've chopped the bolts as well.


I really hate to see bolting and then chopping "wars" nearly as much as I don't appreciate someone adding bolts to an existing line so I didn't take it upon myself to chop the bolts. I hope if someone decides to chop the new bolts, they'll first contact the the FA party to get their opinion. I know Cam Burns, Camster (Rhymes with Hamster) , frequents MP so contacting him would be easy. And for all we know, the person that added the bolts may have contacted Cam or Mike prior to the additions. I'm told something like that happened at Tres Piedras a few years back when the first ascensionist of many routes there went back and added a bolt or two to one of his routes, and shortly thereafter a couple people, without checking with said FA first, promptly chopped them.

Personally, having led this route on gear years before the bolts were added, I found the gear pretty inadequate in chunky rhyolite. It's a very engaging line with cool features and it's really just a lot of fun when not worrying about the gear placements not holding should you fall.

That said, should the FA be displeased with the added bolts and desires someone do the dirty work of chopping them, I'd appreciate the hangers back for upgrading aging hardware on other Northern NM routes.
By Scott Beguin
From: Santa Fe, NM
Apr 26, 2012
rating: 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b

All egos aside. This is a superb route whether done naturally, or clipping the bolts. It is always respectful to check with the FA folks but not always an option. Either way the route kicks butt and gets more traffic with bolts installed. We as climbers have to be able to adapt to change. It is different now than it was in the eighties, and standards will continue to change. If you want opposition and battles, join the army.
By LeeAB Brinckerhoff
Administrator
From: ABQ, NM
Jun 3, 2012
rating: 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b

Best route on the wall.
By Chris Wenker
From: Santa Fe
Jun 8, 2012
rating: 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b

And yet, Mainliner goes clean.
Climbing.com
Cody Roth: "I do hope that my ascent will be an example of new school creative trad climbing, and that it will encourage others to consider climbing in this low impact style, and to think twice before sinking bolts."
By LeeAB Brinckerhoff
Administrator
From: ABQ, NM
Aug 16, 2012
rating: 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b

For reference, Cody first worked Mainliner on bolts for a few day before sending it as a sport climb. He then used the bolt to figure out how to get enough and good enough gear for him, someone who climbs 3 letter grades harder, to feel comfortable leading the pitch without the use of the bolts.

So while Cody's ascent is quite impressive it still relied heavily on the use of bolts.
By Camster (Rhymes with Hamster)
Nov 26, 2012

This is pretty interesting. I remember top-roping this a few times then leading it on natural gear (in the late 1980s, if memory serves). Now it's been bolted? Egad! Oh well. Whatever. I thought it was a fun route. Named for the late Forest Fukushima, a truly gifted climber from Los Alamos, who was hit while riding his bike and died. I remember being in Boulder in, I think, fall 1984, when I heard Forest had passed. His father, Eiichi, was on the first ascent of Vinson in Antarctica in 1966 (I think it was 66). Anyway, life goes on....
By CJK
From: Northern, NM
Aug 12, 2013
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

Best line on the wall!!!
By Ben Burnett
From: Colorado
Sep 22, 2013
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

I agree, best route on the wall. I prefer trad, but this would be crappy on gear. Always ask before you drill, though.
By Narwhal Lo
From: Durango, CO
May 12, 2014
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a

Awesome route! So much better with bolts!
By Owen Summerscales
From: Los Alamos, NM
Jul 11, 2017
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

I decided to move the anchor a little higher on this classic which adds another bolts worth of decent climbing in character with the rest of the climb, enables a far less awkward anchor clipping position and puts the anchor in a better line with the rest of the route. Given that the original bolter is unknown, I did not consult anyone other than other local climbers who agreed it was worthwhile. I hope to get back and give it a second scrub, for now the top is clean enough and will definitely improve with traffic.
This is one of my personal favourite routes in the Jemez, amazing flowing pinches that I could never tire of climbing. I always thought the only negative was the weird premature finish, which hopefully now is fixed. There are now 9 bolts on this route, but most people don't use the first one.
By George Perkins
From: The Dungeon, NM
Jul 12, 2017
rating: 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b

This climb's history regarding bolts (documented above), is unfortunately reflective of a general lack of respect and lack of communication by climbers with drills toward other climbers (other bolters, or gear climbers, past and present, and even other sport climbers).

These days, it's easy to track down the FA, send them an email, and post a note publicly here or on one of the NM climbers FB groups sharing your plan, before you change an existing climb (this is generic, not regarding this route in particular or meant at Owen or anyone in particular). For instance, I could have pointed you toward who I think bolted this. I'm not saying we ought to go to Eldo-style fixed hardware review. There have been now quite a few instances in recent years where well-intentioned "fixing" of 15-20 year old climbs (adding bolts, adding a very close new climb, or aggressively cleaning) has unintendedly changed things such that some other climbers (sometimes myself, sometimes others) have been disappointed by the change, and it seems to be happening more often. Off-line, I'd be happy to share other examples from El Rito, elsewhere at Las Conchas, White Rock, the Dungeon, the Ortegas, Diablo, the Sandias, and Socorro. (I am not suggesting the changes to "Forest" or those other routes should be "undone"! Nor that stupidly bolted climbs should always remain poorly bolted.).

There are certain climbs in our nearby areas that I would be bummed if someone moved or added bolts to, or deliberately broke slightly loose holds off of, and I (and I'm sure others) would like the opportunity to share reasons why before any such actions occur, rather than gripe after the fact knowing it isn't really worth changing things again or creating hard feelings. Let's all (myself included) try to do better to include the broader NM community in decisions that change well-established climbs; sites like MP and FB groups allow for that in a way that wasn't possible 15 years ago.

Respectfully, George (and I know various other experienced local climbers who've shared with me this general sentiment)

------------------
Great climb though (and sounds like it's better now)! Would have been fun to have led it on gear without the opportunity to clip the bolts if I got scared, but I know not many people would want to do that, and I do appreciate it as the good sport climb that it is.
By Andrew B. Ellis
Jul 16, 2017
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

Fantastic route! Wonderful movement, and I think this is one of the gems at the grade for Las Conchas.

I did not get to climb it before Owen extended it. I do hope the top will clean up with more climbs - it was a bit dirty at the anchors. I did appreciate the length of the route though- it now seems to be closer to 65 feet?

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