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Redgarden - Roof Routes
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Evangeline S 
Fire and Ice  T,S 
Gem, The T 
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Fire and Ice  

YDS: 5.12a French: 7a+ Ewbanks: 25 UIAA: VIII+ ZA: 25 British: E5 6a PG13

Type:  Trad, Sport, 3 pitches
Original:  YDS: 5.12a French: 7a+ Ewbanks: 25 UIAA: VIII+ ZA: 25 British: E5 6a PG13 [details]
FA: FFA: Pat Adams, 1981
Fixed Hardware: 4 Lead Bolts, 2 Belay Bolts [details]
Page Views: 3,832
Submitted By: Alex Shainman on Oct 27, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (21)
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Adam Brink On Fire and Ice.

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  • Description 

    Originally, a scary aid line in the '60s, Fire and Ice became an awesome technical face climbing test-piece for the '80s and still today. Three modern bolts protect three uniquely different "crux" sections. As with other "Roof Routes", F+I is rather height-dependent, and it's interesting to see how different people decipher the moves. I will tell you that you better fine tune your high stepping, mantling and crimping skills....

    The route does continue through the roof (slightly down and right) and past the right facing corner at (11+R) by Alec Sharp, using a wild press/stand-up/undercling and jump move to the lip! Stuff a couple cams (#1.5-2 Friend) and layback past a bolt. Head up to the Guenese traverse and an anchor. Rap or continue.

    Also, the first bolt was not originally there; for the aid ascent nor for early free attempts (and ground falls).

    If you do P1 of Psycho and want an interesting TR: Climb F+I to the second bolt and traverse left diagonally upward to Psycho's anchors (led by Alec Sharp, Slow Dancing).

    A good sized flake-hold just before the anchor on P1 broke off, but in my opinion, the climbing has not become more difficult.... That section is still just as tenuous as it always has been, from the right-foot rock over and up!


    3 bolts, 2-bolt anchor.

    Photos of Fire and Ice Slideshow Add Photo
    Rock Climbing Photo: Movin' through the first few cruxes.
    Movin' through the first few cruxes.
    Rock Climbing Photo: Lynn Hill.
    Lynn Hill.
    Rock Climbing Photo: Bob Horan crankin the crux mantle move on Fire and...
    Bob Horan crankin the crux mantle move on Fire and...

    Comments on Fire and Ice Add Comment
    Show which comments
    By Anonymous Coward
    Dec 5, 2004

    This route just got a whole heck of a lot harder this weekend. I ripped off the only good hold between the last bolt and the anchor. The move now is going to be a desperate high step mantle with jack for hand holds. And not to mention that you will be standing a nice little bit above the last bolt. While this was already a technical and excellent slab route, it is now way harder (the crux will be getting to the anchors) and with a little more sketch to it.

    If it used to be 11d (definite sandbag), it is now probably around mid 12.

    Before and after the broken hold, this route is an amazing piece of slab climbing.
    By Kenneth Noisewater
    From: San Diego
    Sep 26, 2006

    Three stars...but
    My 2 cents is: despite a high quality sport route, the grade is 100% wrong. A 5.11 Eldo or sport climber should not get on this thinking it will be a good time.
    I climb mid-12 sport, mid-11 Eldo gear, V6 bouldering; there were moves I just couldn't pull.
    Normally I would pass this off as stylistic and personal differences, however my friend Tony (who climbs 13c Rifle, and on-sights mid to upper 12) took two days of projecting F&I. Jeff Cloud thought it was 12c, before the flake pulled, and Pat Adams himself thought it was pretty ridiculous in hindsight when I asked him about it.
    Just a thought, but when the first acentionist thinks it's probably wrong, it might be time to modernize the rating. Traditionalism or not.
    By Ken Cangi
    From: Eldorado Springs, CO
    Aug 3, 2007
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

    I agree that a 5.11 climber would have his or her hands full on this route, although 12c is way off. I onsighted this route pretty easily, in 1995, It took me three tries to stick the crux of Downpressor Man. There was no stopper move on the route - just sustained and relatively thin climbing most of the way.

    Ken, did Jeff say that to you? Just curious because he was my regular partner back then, and I was with him when he did it. We both onsighted it and, as I recall, agreed that was pretty solid and thought-provoking 12a.
    By Alex Shainman
    Jan 24, 2010

    In my opinion, the last section above the 3rd bolt (high-step w/ funny pinch hold) and where the flake got ripped off is not any harder than before.... For me being 6', 12a has always seemed a reasonable grade for this route, but it is height-dependent, so.... The route is relatively easy to read and no moves are as hard as the crux of Downpressor Man (12a). Oh yeah, it is tenuous and hairy getting to the anchor, for sure (always has been)!
    By Alex Shainman
    Feb 12, 2010

    In response to a comment above...What does it mean to "modernize the rating" anyways??? Ratings are ratings...This route, like many hard routes all over the world, was first freed in EB's (or worse!). No sticky rubber or sensitivity and a blunt toe and using inferior bolts as protection!!!! Modernize? If anything, many ratings should be lowered due to technology!!!

    Anyways...Ratings don't mean shit!
    By Hank Caylor
    From: Glenwood Springs, CO
    Feb 12, 2010

    Now Alex, ratings do mean shit. That's why your profile is full of them. And I also think that Fire and Ice is weirdly stiff since the hold broke. Hope all is well, crazyman!
    By Alex Shainman
    Feb 12, 2010

    You are absolutely correct Hank, ratings do mean shit. Thanks for calling me out! When am I going to see you out in the canyon? Let's do something crazy, soon!
    By Master Beta
    From: Reno, NV
    Oct 27, 2010

    Found a video of this route:

    By Scott Bennett
    Apr 15, 2011
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a

    Fun little route, the epitome of an Eldo climb that either feels easy or impossible. If you enjoy this style of climbing, definitely check out "Book of Numbers", P1 of BoN is about the same grade as F&I.
    From: Denver Colorad
    Dec 2, 2014
    rating: 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a PG13

    Great route with sick runout up high!!! What a GEM.

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