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Figure 8 vs Double Bowline
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Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakn...
amarius wrote:
The knot in the YouTube video is "Bowline on a bight", aka "rethreaded bowline" I've never read of this particular knot inverting, untying, or doing other horrible things


I wasn't sure why this hadn't come up more in this thread. I just practiced it about a hundred times and could not figure out a way that it would come out, even without a stopper knot. I've also learned that it is accepted as a tie in not by the German Alpine Club (without a stopper). Good enough for me.
Antonio Caligiuri
From Bishop, CA
Joined Oct 24, 2013
87 points
Jun 27, 2014
Antonio Caligiuri wrote:
Good enough for me.

It should also be good for your belayer
amarius
Joined Feb 23, 2012
23 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakn...
amarius wrote:
It should also be good for your belayer


Of course. I would never tie in with this knot if my belayer wasn't comfortable with my doing so (and of course being able to check it).
Antonio Caligiuri
From Bishop, CA
Joined Oct 24, 2013
87 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: RCC@50+ Photo courtesy CO Crack Gear
bowline = knot of death... RobC2
Joined Mar 9, 2009
233 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakn...
RobC2 wrote:
bowline = knot of death...


Looking for a SPECIFIC explanation of how a retraced bowline can come untied on its own. But thanks for your detailed and constructive response.
Antonio Caligiuri
From Bishop, CA
Joined Oct 24, 2013
87 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: tanuki
Antonio Caligiuri wrote:
Looking for a SPECIFIC explanation of how a retraced bowline can come untied on its own. But thanks for your detailed and constructive response.


It. Will. Not. Ever. Come. Untied. If you are unsure, you can back it up with a fisherman. I have used it and fallen on it. A lot. I usually use a figure eight, but have no problem with the retraced bowline.
NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Joined Dec 6, 2009
71 points
Jun 27, 2014
1000 lead fall? Dude. .. That's more dangerous than what knot you are using.

Stop doing that.
Lorenzo
Joined Jan 4, 2014
0 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: RCC@50+ Photo courtesy CO Crack Gear
Antonio Caligiuri wrote:
Looking for a SPECIFIC explanation of how a retraced bowline can come untied on its own. But thanks for your detailed and constructive response.


Ach, laddie, yer welcome...
RobC2
Joined Mar 9, 2009
233 points
Jun 27, 2014
Rock Climbing Photo: Slab...
John Wilder wrote:
Yosemite finish on your fig-8 will make your knot very easy to untie. make sure not to pull the finish tight, but instead leave a bit of space so you can pull the rope out of the knot. the bowline is fine, provided you back it up and check it after every pitch if you're climbing multipitch. make damn sure to back it up, though, as otherwise it can and will come undone.


+1 dude...
Rockbanned
From Plattsburgh, Ny
Joined Dec 18, 2011
221 points
Oct 4, 2016
I don't use the double bowline for the very reason that it is so likely to come undone if not backed up.

However, I use a more secure variation on it, the double bowline retrace, which I suspect is much less likely to come undone without a backup knot, perhaps to the level of a figure 8, though I have not seen any data around it.

My only test of this is a climbing partner of mine, who showed me yet another a variation of the retrace, which has 3 loops around the trigger, and who for many, many years has never backed it up (he is a local at the Red River gorge, KY).

I think it's time folk started talking about the double bowline retrace, which does no cinch up on falls, and provides a significant measure of security when not backed up.

Lester Arguelles
Joined Oct 4, 2016
0 points
Oct 6, 2016
Was just watching Vertical Frontier (about the Yosemite Camp 4 battle), and
noticed some very old footage (40's?) of someone tying in.

It was a bowline, but backed up with a fishermans around the loop, even in
that day and age.
Allan-sf
Joined Mar 12, 2014
3 points
Oct 6, 2016
Ryan Williams wrote:
There are a lot of ways to tie a bowline but there is only one Figure 8 Follow Through. It is a standard.



Actually there are 4 ways to tie the figure 8 follow
knot. Two of them are better than the other two and are mirror images of each other. I call them "better" figure 8 follow knots, one being tied "right-handed" and the other "left-handed". The other two are inferior knots and also mirror images of each other. Most people can't tell the difference and have no clue as to why one is better than the other. Something for you knot geeks to see if you can figure out.

Btw, as long as people are talking about knot terminology, the knot that is typically used to backup a bowline is not a double fisherman's. It's a double overhand tied around the load strand. A double fisherman's knot is used to tied two ends of rope(s) together and consists of two double overhands, each tied around the "other" rope and then pulled toward each other where they "bump" up against each other and lock up.
Note: to tie a double fishermans correctly, the second double overhand is tied in the opposite direction around the rope as the first. This is easily done by tying the first and then roatating the ropes 180 degrees and tying the second in exactly the same way. Now you know the easy way to tie a clean and well dressed double fisherman's knot.
rockklimber
Joined Feb 12, 2008
0 points
Oct 6, 2016
Rock Climbing Photo: Aleks
Lorenzo wrote:
1000 lead fall? Dude. .. That's more dangerous than what knot you are using. Stop doing that.


climbing friend,

if you do not forge yourself reborn from experience of many 1000s of crushings and 1000s of safe lead falls, you will be terrible climber. the fear it is the mind killer yes.
Aleks Zebastian
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2014
162 points


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