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DeAngelo/ Duncan Route (aka Double D) T 
Dogma T,S 
Gwondonna Land Boogie T 
Head of State T 
Just Missed the Cleavage T 
Lady Wilson's Cleavage T 
Pink Tornado Left T 
Sentimental Journey T 


YDS: 5.11c French: 6c+ Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 24 British: E4 6a

Type:  Trad, Sport, Grade V
Original:  YDS: 5.11c French: 6c+ Ewbanks: 24 UIAA: VIII- ZA: 24 British: E4 6a [details]
FA: Brian Mcray and Mike Lewis
Page Views: 8,065
Submitted By: Jer Collins on Sep 22, 2001

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (19)
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BETA PHOTO: A layout of the major climbing routes on Mt. Wilso...

RAIN AND WET ROCK The sandstone in Red Rocks is fragile and is very easily damaged when it is wet. MORE INFO >>>


I am posting a topo of the route instead of describing each pitch in detail. This is all I had to send the route, but it was horrible, so I recreated one. This is a Flyin' Brian line. He says we had the first onsight of the line...

It is absolutely amazing. Take the Black Velvet Wall and drop it 1,000 feet above the desert floor. I believe the line is number 12 in George's photo.

The "VI" is a little misleading. I believe it refers to the commitment level. This is the definition of "desert rockaneering".



Cams: #00 TCU to #1 Camalot, 15 QDs, 1 60m rope

Photos of Dogma Slideshow Add Photo
Rock Climbing Photo: Perfect!
Rock Climbing Photo: This is the start of the route.
BETA PHOTO: This is the start of the route.
Rock Climbing Photo: Cruxin.
Rock Climbing Photo: topo by jer collins
BETA PHOTO: topo by jer collins

Comments on Dogma Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Apr 3, 2017
By J. Thompson
From: denver, co
Sep 27, 2005

Don't you need a 70M rope to rap this???

By J. Thompson
From: denver, co
Oct 18, 2005

That's funny; I was told by a prominant local that when they tried to rap with a single 60M they came up short on one of the raps.....
By Vernon Stiefel
Mar 28, 2006

"Dogma" offers some fantastic climbing on the east face of Mt. Wilson. While I wouldn't describe the route as being a true sport climb, I only placed a total of five pieces on the first eleven pitches so you won't need an extensive rack. I thought the best pitches were #3 and the crux pitch which begins off of the Sherwood Forest ledge. We didn't climb the final four pitches because there was a deep snowbank on the ledge at the base of pitch #12. We climbed the route with a 70 meter rope which enabled us to safely rappel the route.
By eric coleman
Feb 8, 2007

This is a spectacular route and well worth doing. The Red Rock Canyon guidebook recommends up to a #4 friend, which is unnecessary. A single set of cams up to a #1 camalot is more than enough. The upper pitches require almost no gear, but the route is a lot sportier than Levitation 29, and in my opinion, better. The first two headwall pitches from the last ledge can be linked with a 70 meter rope, giving the follower the opportunity to climb the last four pitches (5.11a, and three 5.8's) in one pitch. The descent can be tricky in the dark. Have fun.
By Mike Schmitt
Apr 30, 2007
rating: 5.11+ 7a 24 VIII 24 E4 6a

This route is spectacular! However with a 60m rope, we came up short by a LOT (20+ feet) on two of the raps. And on several others, I had to hang from the knots at the end of the rope and reach way below my feet to clip the anchors.

A 70m rope should reach with room to spare, but I think the relatively straightforward First Creek Canyon walkdown descent (which I have done a couple of times) is a much better option than hours of rappelling.
By jhump
Mar 24, 2009
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

Great route! On 3/17/09, we climbed free to the final ledge before running into a snow bank guarding the upper pitches. The last 2 pitches before the ledge had been very wet. We called it a day and started rapping. Bring a single 70 meter for safe raps.

My rack:
14 quickdraws (4 of these tripled up 24" runners)
5 medium stoppers (maybe BD size 4-8)
#0 (purple) tcu
#1 (blue) Mastercam
Yellow, Red, Gold: Aliens
Red Camalot

Pitch 4 is exciting with an opening thin section followed by a great crack and ending with a crazy chimney to a sandy face. The crux is one of the best pitches I have done at the grade. The face above is continually engaging on amazing rock. The entire headwall is perfectly bolted- expect a little space between the shiny silver bolts.

Try to be at the White Riot Gully at first light on the approach- for us this was 6am. It is tricky and a little light is important.

The giant black water streak does not come into play. There are a few tiny water streaks just left of the big one. If these are shiny when viewed in the sun from below, then the last 2 headwall pitches will probably be wet and there will be snow on the ledge possibly barring passage. Give it a few weeks. Good luck.
By ekamm
Oct 20, 2009

did Pink Tornado to Dogma last weekend--stellar routes. Would recommend descending by 1st Creek Canyon rather than rapping the route/descending back down via Willy's Coulair, which took us about 4 hrs. It's much faster descending via 1st Creek Canyon.
By Tim Wolfe
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 20, 2010
rating: 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a

We did the Pink Tornado to Sherwood Forest, then the upper pitches of Dogma and rappelled with two ropes. I would skip pink tornado and do the direct start next time. If the descent is faster down First Creek that would be much better than the endless rappel and hike out from the base. The crux pitch off the Sherwood forest ledge is absolutely stunning climbing and the upper pitches are classic Red Rocks thin edging - well worth the effort but this is a huge day car to car.
Rock Climbing Photo: Climbing the crux 5.11c pitch off of Sherwood fore...
Climbing the crux 5.11c pitch off of Sherwood forest ledge

Rock Climbing Photo: Entering the crux moves
Entering the crux moves

Rock Climbing Photo: A few ptiches up the Dogma headwall in the sustain...
A few ptiches up the Dogma headwall in the sustained fun edging pitches

Rock Climbing Photo: A look up at the headwall with the route line draw...
A look up at the headwall with the route line drawn in 9from Sherwood forest ledge.)
By smassey
From: CO
Apr 29, 2010

If anyone heads up to do this route, or rap down it, be prepared to leave a lot of tat(a few lengths of chain would be nice for one anchor). Most of the stations below Sherwood Forest are totally rotting or almost there. If someone is public service oriented, about 50' of static line would do it. Also, if anyone ever decides to replace the rusting bolts on this, please use stainless, since many of the lower bolts lie in runoff areas. 04/29/10
RE: Conditions. Until it snowed on us, the lower pitches appeared to be dry. The waterstreak on the first headwall pitch was dry, but the upper waterstreaks looked wet still from Sherwood Forest.
By steve edwards
From: SLC, UT
May 18, 2010

Here's a pretty detailed trip report and photo essay on the climb.
By Luke Stefurak
From: Seattle, WA
Mar 10, 2011

I added new quicklinks and chains to most of the anchors in the first 10 pitches. I ran out of rope so two anchors still could be upgraded. Another 50+' of rope would be great. 30-40' for the rap station at the #4 on the topo(this needs to be extra long otherwise you won't make it to the next station) and ~20' for the station at #2. Thanks to John Wilder and ASCA for providing quicklinks & rings.
By Cunning Linguist
May 9, 2011

Thanks, Luke. Too bad about the bolts already starting to rust...guess the fast-food nature of establishing this "free climb" as well as others in Red Rock top-down doesn't lend itself all that well to using the best hardware. Through water streaks, no less. Classy.
By Cindy
From: Lafayette, CO
Sep 17, 2015

Anyone know if a via ferrata or other fixed gear has been added to the catwalk mentioned in the topo approach description?
By Mike A. Lewis
From: Estes Park, CO
Nov 1, 2016

I'm glad you all are digging the route. I'm sorry to hear about the rusting hardware - Brian and I both put in what we had at the time - Brian had a garage full of random stuff and who knows what - he was a craftsman at heart! Unfortunately, Flyin' Brian is no longer with us. He was an amazing person! I live elsewhere now too and financially support my local re-bolters as well as in other areas. Thanks for making the necessary updates! Here are a few stories to go along with the route...

Brian and I first saw the line when climbing Resolution Arete together with a couple Argentine friends. Pretty soon after, we opened the route. After climbing, we simul-rapped the entire route in 30 minutes. I've never seen someone move as fast as Brian did. In all the rappels, I could not get my gri-gri on the rope and do the transition faster then him one time!

By R Sather
Apr 3, 2017

To make a long story short my partner and I got on the wrong route thinking the chimney to the left of the start of the "Pink Tornado" was the first pitch of "Dogma". I'll have to dumb it down to the universe playing a sick April Fools joke on us.

I'm posting this to give clarity to future parties on the approach. We had to continue up Willy's Colouir much farther than we first had thought. Walk past the obvious chimney system on the left hand side of the large 200' triangle tower feature. One will have to continue up past large chockstones and ascend a couple ramp like features that are on the Horseshoe wall, the right side of the colouir if going up. There is one ramp feature that feels somewhat committing to climb and has a single bolt with quick link. After you have passed this single bolt keep ascending the colouir and eventually you will encounter the large chimney feature that is the first pitch of "Dogma"(pictured).

Besides wasting time getting on the wrong route we were able to salvage the day and got up to Sherwood Forest in time to both lead the crux pitch and rappel down. The 11a finger crack/ OW/ slab pitch was fantastic and one of the most fun pitches of climbing I have done in RR. It was so varied it kept me on my toes! The crux pitch is steep and is reminiscent of the climbing on the Black Velvet Wall. We sent the crux in full sport wanker style and I was glad to have my partner put the draws up for me. On 4/1/17 it was surprisingly chilly belaying on the Sherwood Forest ledge. I recommend bringing some sort of light approach shoe because of the amount of cactus, scrambling, and rappelling; it will save your feet. Can't wait to get back and summit this route and get a taste of the rest of the head wall pitches. Have fun, be safe!

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