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Climb With A View 

YDS: 5.13 French: 8a Ewbanks: 29 UIAA: X- ZA: 30 British: E7 6c

Type:  Trad, 1 pitch, 75'
Original:  YDS: 5.13 French: 8a Ewbanks: 29 UIAA: X- ZA: 30 British: E7 6c [details]
FA: Ray Ringle, Dan Michael,'87
Page Views: 1,526
Submitted By: 1Eric Rhicard on Apr 11, 2008

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (3)
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Bottom is thin and a bit hard on the tips but the rest is interesting and the moves are really fun and you can take some 15+ foot whippers. Face to seams and small corner then more face.


Second to the left of Golden Beaver (Crack) on the lower left side of cliff.


bolts, anchors

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By Alex McIntyre
From: Tucson, AZ
May 4, 2014

David Adams and I went out a couple of days ago and replaced the first 3 bolts (the only independent ones). The old, while looking bad from the surface, were shockingly horrible. Bolt 1 was a pretty short taper bolt, and then the next two were only half an inch long when we unscrewed them- they didn't break, that was actually how long they were. All had SMC hangers. Continue to be aware of old hex head bolts on the mountain- they are full of sketchy surprises.
By 1Eric Rhicard
May 5, 2014

Hey Alex, Thanks for the upgrade. These bolts needed to be replaced. Your term "shockingly horrible" is interesting. Were the short bolts rusted away or just short? Those short bolts have held tons of falls over the years. You may not be aware that they were screwed into sleeves known as drop ins or self drives that are much longer than the bolts. I used to put self drives in with grade eight bolts which are super strong. If the part below the rock was placed properly they are bomber as witnessed by the fact none failed.

The danger with such a short bolt is that if they start to spin it doesn't take long for them to fall out. This happens with wedge bolts if the nut gets loose as the nut comes off and the hanger falls off. Glad to see you guys taking the reins and doing the hard work to keep our route hardware maintained.
By Alex McIntyre
From: Tucson, AZ
May 5, 2014

The bolts in question were either drop ins or self drives, as I am aware. According to the ASCA, both are considered to be dangerous bolts ( ). The second bolt in particular, which barely protects a fairly long run on some tensiony seam climbing, was incredibly rusty. It may have held some falls in the past, but for better or worse Climb With A View has seemingly fallen into obscurity in recent times and as far as I am aware the only people to have gotten on the route in the last few years are Pete Piek and myself. I know that I refused to fall on the second bolt and I don't think Pete fell on it either. Now I am glad I made that decision. Hopefully now the route will get some more traffic- the seam climbing after the (very sharp) crux is really interesting and entering the first crux shared with Trapezoid from below instead of the side is quite different.
By 1Eric Rhicard
May 5, 2014

I used self drives and I read what the ASCA wrote about them. I paraphrase, they only had a shear of 3000 which didn't seem that good considering the effort it took to put them in. That seems pretty good to me. I am not recommending their use just was surprised they thought it was not very good. Can't remember what a modern 3/8ths is. Anyway, it would be worth asking Ray if he used drop ins of self drills. For future reference mine were used in the early 80s. When I get done with my other major compiling project I will try and get a list of routes that might have self drives. This should help you and others avoid them. It will also give you a list of need to fix routes since you seem to be stepping up to upgrade the areas fixed protection. Thanks again.
By Geir
From: Tucson, AZ
May 6, 2014

Modern bolts are around 5000+ pounds for shear, depending on the bolt. The new School of Rock on MP has a description for how to pull drop-ins so the same hole can be reused. There are a lot of drop-ins around here on old routes so I was psyched to learn this technique.

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