Burlington Vermont vs. Portland Oregon

Looking for an opinion of both these cities comparing the Climbing and other outdoor access. I got into colleges I'm happy with in both places but have not spent time in either place. I'm in NJ right now so either are a big improvement. any insight to the climbing, skiing, hiking, MTB, or just the cities is appreciated!

Speaking in broad terms, the salient differences are IMO...

Portland:
- big city
- mild weather
- area with year-round "Winter" activity possibilities (longer ski season, summer mountaineering)

Burlington:
- small town
- humid Summers/arctic Winters/prettiest Falls
- ice climbing mecca

Beyond that, I think you'll find enough rock and hiking to keep you busy for a few years in both areas.

What kind of town/city do you want to live in for the non-climbing goals? For example, I'd prefer Burlington for college for four years for the small town atmosphere and Portland as a real city to live nearby (not in, for my own personal preferences) after school. I like small(er) city/towns for college, and larger ones for later in life-- that's how my life has worked out anyway. Portland will obviously have a bigger city draw for music/entertainment etc, but you're in school with infinite new friends so you can really make anywhere work.

Do you prefer more winter sports or non-winter sports? Burlington will be more full-on cold with sking, ice-climbing, etc without any "escape" from December till things thaw, whereas Portland will only give you real winter when you want to head to it (e.g., venture up one of the volcanoes).

Of course, "the west" has more big opportunities for all outdoor sports (mountaineering objectives, climbing, road-trip exploration with more BLM/NFS land) but I really like the Burlington area for climbing, backpacking/hiking, and living.

Which schools?

Mike McKinnon wrote: I went to school at middlebury and it is 20 minutes south of Burlington. It is fucking cold as shit in the winter. The fall is the best time. IMO the only nice season. Winter sucks balls unless you ice climb and ski. Even then expect to do it in freezing (around 0 sub zero temps). Spring smells like cow shit and is nice sometimes but only because winter sucked so much you are pysched for some sun. Summer is super humid and buggy. Fall is beatiful but lasts all but two months. the rock climbing is not that great either. Adirondacks are ok. nothing really in vermont except for small chossy crags. Gunks is 4 hours away. Whitehorse and cathedral our 4 hours away as well. i would choose portland in a heartbeat over Vermont. out west, milder weather, better rock climbing as well. Plus you are much closer to some other awesome states, CO, UT, WA, WY are all way better than VT neighbors, ME, MA, RI, CT

We must drive at different rates, I never made it from Burlington to Middlebury in 20 minutes but Rumney is 2 hours, and NoConway is just around 3 hours from Burlington. Bolton has great cragging 20 minutes from down town, especially as Upper and Upper Upper West get developed. Smugglers notch can be 30-45 minutes, depending how you get there. The Adirondaks are ah-mazing, and especially around Lake Placid has seen a ton of route development in recent years. I believe gunks are 5 hours? Need your city fix? It's easy to forget Montreal is an hour away, 1.6 million people in a Euro urban area.

Let's be real, if you're used to NJ, the summers in VT will not be any more humid. I moved to VT from Maine and thought it was swell. Winters are gorgeous and full of things to do outside, unless you're a sissy. I live in west of Denver now and really miss my winters in Vermont.

I wouldn't qualify Portland as being 'close' to those other states you listed, by that drive time logic Burlington is 'close' to the red, new, etc. Vermont is my fave place, hands down!

Ancent wrote:What kind of town/city do you want to live in for the non-climbing goals? For example, I'd prefer Burlington for college for four years for the small town atmosphere and Portland as a real city to live nearby (not in, for my own personal preferences) after school. I like small(er) city/towns for college, and larger ones for later in life-- that's how my life has worked out anyway. Portland will obviously have a bigger city draw for music/entertainment etc, but you're in school with infinite new friends so you can really make anywhere work. Do you prefer more winter sports or non-winter sports? Burlington will be more full-on cold with sking, ice-climbing, etc without any "escape" from December till things thaw, whereas Portland will only give you real winter when you want to head to it (e.g., venture up one of the volcanoes). Of course, "the west" has more big opportunities for all outdoor sports (mountaineering objectives, climbing, road-trip exploration with more BLM/NFS land) but I really like the Burlington area for climbing, backpacking/hiking, and living.

Living next to NYC my whole life I'm totally done with the city and would much prefer burlington sized town. Rock climbing is my first passion but after that i lova adapting to the seasons. I am psyched to ski more and learn to ice climb but Volcano climbing also seems great.I plan on moving west after college once I can choose where but not sure I want the rain and the city size that goes with portland.
thank for the input!

Lee Durbetaki wrote:Which schools?

Lewis and Clark college in Portland and University of Vermont in Burlington. I'm extremely familiar with Mike MicKinnon's Middlebury,I applied early but didn't get in ( a failure that will save well over $100k). Any helpful info on either school?

Adam Gellman wrote: Lewis and Clark college in Portland and University of Vermont in Burlington. I'm extremely familiar with Mike MicKinnon's Middlebury,I applied early but didn't get in ( a failure that will save well over $100k). Any helpful info on either school?

I'm a UVMer and then lived in Stowe a few years after I graduated. UVM has gotten pretty recognizable as a good school, but also expensive for out of staters. What are you trying to study?

Momoface wrote: I'm a UVMer and then lived in Stowe a few years after I graduated. UVM has gotten pretty recognizable as a good school, but also expensive for out of staters. What are you trying to study?

Awesome, I would love to find out more about it from you. I am planning on studying biology. It is way too expensive out of state but I got a solid scholarship that makes it comparable to my in state tuition.

Adam Gellman wrote: Living next to NYC my whole life I'm totally done with the city and would much prefer burlington sized town. Rock climbing is my first passion but after that i lova adapting to the seasons. I am psyched to ski more and learn to ice climb but Volcano climbing also seems great.I plan on moving west after college once I can choose where but not sure I want the rain and the city size that goes with portland. thank for the input!

If you like the small town idea and are psyched to get on ice, go to Burlington (assuming it's academically comparable in your chosen field of study).

I thought I'd go chasing rock and sunshine out West too, but I'm a Yank now I suppose :-) Winter is my favorite season, but as evidenced by this thread it isn't for everyone.

In all honesty, you're coming from Jersey, flip a coin.

mediocre wrote:In all honesty, you're coming from Jersey, flip a coin.

hahahahaha you're so right. too bad there is annoying stuff like "School" that have to factor into the decision.

Adam Gellman wrote: hahahahaha you're so right. too bad there is annoying stuff like "School" that have to factor into the decision.

OP said

I got into colleges I'm happy with in both places but have not spent time in either place. I'm in NJ right now so either are a big improvement

I know its annoying to read the OP in a forum, but it gives a little insight.

i grew up near burlington and just moved back. winters are really not that bad here and it usually ends mid march. the shoulder seasons like late fall, early spring seem to go on forever and there is nothing to do. Summer is great being near the lake. Youre 2 hours from grade 4 at cannon, 1.5 from poke-o. bolton is close but the climbing is just okay. Smuggs and willoughby are world class for about 2-3 months ever winter. skiing is okay most years, mountain biking is good.

Burlington is THE college town though. pretty fun place to be young

mediocre wrote: OP said I got into colleges I'm happy with in both places but have not spent time in either place. I'm in NJ right now so either are a big improvement I know its annoying to read the OP in a forum, but it gives a little insight.

fair caught. Just sayin that I have a little more work to to than just guessing.

Adam Gellman wrote: fair caught. Just sayin that I have a little more work to to than just guessing.

That's pretty damn funny because I didn't realize you are the OP. Shame on me.

If the school situation is equal I would still honestly flip a coin. Each place has their perks.

Hey Adam. I'm at school here in Burlington at UVM. I'm highly involved in the community, and can shed a lot of light on the climbing here, as well as what the climbing, skiing and bike community is like at UVM, St. Mikes and Champlain assuming you got in one of those places. Feel free to shoot me a message!

Max Forbes wrote:Hey Adam. I'm at school here in Burlington at UVM. I'm highly involved in the community, and can shed a lot of light on the climbing here, as well as what the climbing, skiing and bike community is like at UVM, St. Mikes and Champlain assuming you got in one of those places. Feel free to shoot me a message!

That would be great! I saw some of your amazing pics through the UVM instagram and I was very impressed. Ill send you a PM later!

I went to Willamette U in Salem (Oregon), grew up in MA and CT.

Moving to the west was awesome, best decision I've ever made.
You can bike to a great gym from Lewis and Clark
Winters are very wet and can be depressing, I regret every weekend I didn't get out to Smith and tried to party/get laid. Weather is almost always better in Central Oregon.
Prepare for crowds at gyms and crags, but if you actually are waiting in line to do something its your fault, there are so many good routes in Oregon
Portland is a days drive from Bishop, Squamish, & Cascades, Burlington you are going to drive far to get to most vacation destinations (NRG is even with PDX to Bishop at 12 hrs, Red River Gorge is 14 hours, Squamish and the Cascades are way closer to PDX)

Only thing that would sway me away from PDX in your situation would be if the tuition is way more in L&C than Middlebury. We all got degrees in Underwater Basket Weaving and other shit at Willamette and it was expensive.

This may sound strange but can you appreciate grunge in climbing? If so, you might really like Vermont climbing. If not...well...

I've lived in Burlington for the last 5 years and I rarely climb outside of Bolton/Smuggler's Notch. True, the Adirondacks are 60 to 90 minutes away. Cannon is ~2 hours away, Conway is 2.5, as is Rumney. But honestly? I don't bother. I love Vermont climbing.

Of course, I've traveled to RRG and out west a few times and I certainly do climb in NH and NY. The climbing there is excellent. But there is also something truly wonderful about the somewhat dirty, kind of sketchy, and usually sandbagged climbing in the green mountain state.

Maybe it's because I really cut my teeth here, but I love it and it usually takes a pretty enticing offer for me to drive outside of the state to climb when there is such a plethora of good climbing 20 - 60 minutes from home.

Check out Tough Schist. VT definitely has climbing.