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Boulder, CO climber moving to East Coast
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Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:
I grew up in Seattle, have family in Montana and used to live in Bozeman, and live in Boston now--for 2 more years, until I finish medical school. I am literally counting down the days until I leave. DO NOT move out here. You will regret it. The resort skiing is garbage, basically tilted hockey rinks. Backcountry skiing consists mostly of attempting to navigate impassable birch groves. The climbing is excellent, but compared to Boulder, it's a LOOOOOOONG drive from any of these places and the weather is total crap. That's coming from someone who lived in Seattle and Bozeman, which are not known for being sunny and warm. It's hot, humid, and rainy in the spring and summer. The winter is basically unclimbable--I have a harder time climbing rock out here in winter than either Seattle or Bozeman. The traffic in Boston is barely better than in Seattle. It's impossible to bike anywhere here without fearing for your life. People maladaptively cope with pent-up rage by driving homicidally. They salt the roads so much that anything you own made of metal will basically disintegrate in 5 years. People are RUDE compared to the PNW/MT/Colorado, even at the crags. Places are crowded--there are something like 50 million people in the DC-Boston corridor, and there's not nearly as much public land to handle the crowds. To cap it off, it's EXPENSIVE af to live out here. If you consider yourself an outdoorsman first, DO NOT MOVE TO A BIG CITY IN THE NORTHEAST. I can't emphasize that enough. You will be unhappy and regret it. Places like North Conway, New Paltz, Burlington, Portland, etc would probably be a mild disappointment rather than soul-crushing but those sound like they are impractical for you with your travel requirements.


You must have an "ax to grind". lol
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Ralph Swansen wrote:
Hartford is a fair place and will feel more "like" Boulder than NYC.


haha i spent 22 years in the immediate Hartford area and have lived in Boulder for 10 and have never heard nor made this comparison.

Hartford is a shit hole. Sure it's got it's good and bad including one of the best art museums you can find, but it's still a hole. Don't get me wrong you can find things about it that you'll love, but there is no comparison other than it's not a huge city. It compare it more to Denver if Denver decided to be especially shitty. Don't ever leave your gear in your car for sure.

Oh if you want to get stoked on NE climbing though read this. Favorite book and will give you tons of history

amazon.com/Yankee-Rock-Ice-Cli...

Go Huskies
Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Feb 15, 2006
105 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:
I'd choose the South in a heartbeat over the Northeast but he said he needs to be between Boston and Baltimore


Depends on a lot of things. There's even less rock in the deep south than in the Northeast, but less climbers as a percentage of the whole. The warmth and humidity though, it gets really bad. I lived a year in Florida, about half the year was the NE summer every day. I know the Carolinas and Tennessee get some relief, but they're still very warm during the May-Sept time frame.

The only benefit with the South would be the temps Dec thru early March.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
You must have an "ax to grind". lol


Certainly do. Miss the west terribly and don't want another lifelong Westerner to make the same mistake.
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
Scott McMahon is correct.

I'm trying to figure out how this became so NYC oriented. Sure, New York is arguably one of the greatest cities in the world, and if your priority is millions of beautiful women, amazing bars and one of the best restaurant scenes on the planet, the best live music scene hands down, it would be a great choice.
BUT, it's not all that close to climbing, is incredibly expensive, and is challenging to even have a car.

I don't love Boston nearly as much as NYC but I believe it's better in your case.
My vote would be somewhere like Northampton, MA or Nashua, NH




Scott McMahon wrote:
haha i spent 22 years in the immediate Hartford area and have lived in Boulder for 10 and have never heard nor made this comparison. Hartford is a shit hole. Sure it's got it's good and bad including one of the best art museums you can find, but it's still a hole. Don't get me wrong you can find things about it that you'll love, but there is no comparison other than it's not a huge city. It compare it more to Denver if Denver decided to be especially shitty. Don't ever leave your gear in your car for sure. Oh if you want to get stoked on NE climbing though read this. Favorite book and will give you tons of history amazon.com/Yankee-Rock-Ice-Cli... Go Huskies
Nick Votto
Joined Jul 27, 2008
80 points
Jan 11, 2017
Nick Votto wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how this became so NYC oriented.


Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
Depends on a lot of things. There's even less rock in the deep south than in the Northeast, but less climbers as a percentage of the whole. The warmth and humidity though, it gets really bad. I lived a year in Florida, about half the year was the NE summer every day. I know the Carolinas and Tennessee get some relief, but they're still very warm during the May-Sept time frame. The only benefit with the South would be the temps Dec thru early March.


Florida is not the center of southern rock climbing. In the South (VA, NC, TN, WV, AL, GA) there are just as many routes on Mt Project as the North East. The difference is that the Rock tends to be bigger and better on average in the South. There is also lots of awesome sandstone along with the quartzite, granite and gneiss that the North East has. I know that Charlotte might be a bit far south but the argument can be made that its a better place to travel from as weather delays are seldom an issue. Summer climbing may not be the best, but plenty of high country stuff that's doable in the shade.
Alexander K
From Boulder, CO
Joined Oct 26, 2014
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
Alexander K wrote:
Florida is not the center of southern rock climbing. In the South (VA, NC, TN, WV, AL, GA) there are just as many routes on Mt Project as the North East. The difference is that the Rock tends to be bigger and better on average in the South. There is also lots of awesome sandstone along with the quartzite, granite and gneiss that the North East has. I know that Charlotte might be a bit far south but the argument can be made that its a better place to travel from as weather delays are seldom an issue. Summer climbing may not be the best, but plenty of high country stuff that's doable in the shade.


Roger that, I wasn't implicating there was *any* climbing in Florida just used it a reference / point of credibility (aka - been there, done that). I also didn't climb when I was living in FL during my early twenties.

Not sure about those numbers though. Maybe by MP count, but there's a ton not on MP up here.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:


You forgot CO = "mecca" ;-)
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
You forgot CO = "mecca" ;-)


Haha I haven't actually spent much time in CO, and Boulder certainly isn't my cup o' tea. I just think that for a climber who's used to the benign weather, short drives, and climbing everywhere the Northeast will be a big disappointment. Which is not to say there aren't great climbers/skiers/boaters etc. out here. Hell, Jeremy Jones, arguably the best big-mountain skier/snowboarder in the world, grew up on Cape Cod--but there's a reason he lives in Tahoe now.
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:



That map's funny. It reminds me that when I travel north to NY or MA everyone says I'm from the south. Redneck or hillbilly what have you.. if I travel to Durham or Atlanta then the locals say "damn Yankee". We're in no mans land over here :)

I will say I love living in Baltimore. I can travel as I please. But nowhere I mean nowhere can you make so much money changing light bulbs for the Feds. If there were a Washington DC in WA state or MT would be there in a minute.
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
40 points
Jan 11, 2017
Something that people in this thread are forgetting.....
The OP said: "The only requirement is that I live near a major airport preferably between Baltimore and Boston. "

When a company sets that as a requirement, they mean it. They're looking for that person to live relatively near-by, not a 2hr commute. They also want their employee to travel quickly, meaning lots of flight options, ideally many of them non-stop. In short they want their employee to be able to minimize travel time.

Dinkey little airports like Providence, Manchester NH, Charlotte, Burlington, Hartford, et al just don't qualify. From the company's perspective, when they say between Baltimore and Boston and "major", there are really only about 5 or so.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they said no to living in a number of places strongly suggested by some in this thread. New Paltz immediately comes to mind.
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
Agree mostly on the airport point, although Hartford enables you to fly almost anywhere for great prices.
I've done 40-50 flights a year out of there for the last 4 years, all over the US, usually only do NYC for international travel.


Marc801 wrote:
Something that people in this thread are forgetting..... The OP said: "The only requirement is that I live near a major airport preferably between Baltimore and Boston. " When a company sets that as a requirement, they mean it. They're looking for that person to live relatively near-by, not a 2hr commute. They also want their employee to travel quickly, meaning lots of flight options, ideally many of them non-stop. In short they want their employee to be able to minimize travel time. Dinkey little airports like Providence, Manchester NH, Charlotte, Burlington, Hartford, et al just don't qualify. From the company's perspective, when they say between Baltimore and Boston and "major", there are really only about 5 or so. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they said no to living in a number of places strongly suggested by some in this thread. New Paltz immediately comes to mind.
Nick Votto
Joined Jul 27, 2008
80 points
Administrator
Jan 11, 2017
Marc801 has a good point...yet "everything is negotiable" (or should be)

In 50 years of living in the Northeast, I have NEVER not been able to drive to the airport and then found my flight NOT cancelled. Turning that around into a positive we get: EVERY time I have driven to the airport in snow, sleet, hail, or rain or wind I have been able to get there, but usually the flight is cancelled (or delayed). NEVER has a flight take off without me because of a road delay.

What should it matter to my company if I chose to live a normal 1 1/2 hrs from the airport?..if I can get on the flight(s). (AND, BTW, the last 10 miles to/from JFK or LaGuadia can easily take 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour.)

The "big" NE airports are JFK, Newark, LaGuardia (with about $30/day parking), then I think Phili or Boston. Baltimore, except for Southwest, is actually quite small...half the airport is "dead", just like Cincinnati since Delta bought Northwest and changed their hub from Cinci to Detroit.
Robert Hall
Joined Aug 27, 2013
9,670 points
Jan 11, 2017
OP, if you're still tuning in, I didn't see you mention what type of climbing is your highest priority. You were curious about the Gunks, so I'll assume trad is your thing. The Gunks are phenomenal. So is NH trad (North Conway, Franconia Notch, etc.), which has the added benefit of 1000' classic routes on Cannon.

To be a committed climber and live anywhere in the Northeast, you have to embrace whatever climbing the weather offers. I grew up in Boston, lived on the Front Range for six years, and I now live in NH. Between the White Moutains, Willoughby, and satellite areas, New England has a lifetime of ice climbing. Yes, it hurts when my brother who lives in Denver tells me that he climbed at Eldo in a t-shirt in February. But I climb outside every month of the year too.

Boston has good day trip or weekend access to all of that ice. I recommend the northwestern suburbs: Somerville, Medford and Malden. 15 min to Logan Airport. Easy parking. Waaaay lower cost of living than NYC. Close to the Middlesex Fells, a park with very good trail running. Easy to hop on 93 or 95 and get up north. If you only have a half day, good bouldering 30 min away (Lynn Woods) or 1 hr away (Pawtuckaway). Easy access to all the urban amenities of Boston on public transportation. Close to two great gyms (Metrorock Everett and Brooklyn Boulders).

Good luck, let us know how it works out!
Rich Brereton
From Durham, NH
Joined May 25, 2009
120 points
Jan 11, 2017
Take a piece of string, figure out about an inch ? = 90 miles?
on a ' Maps' program measure out a 40, 60 & 90 mile set of circles
From center points measured at the various airports. & towns like New Paltz.

I think you will find that a look at the density of the cities changes vastly as one heads west.

I would also think that New Paltz is at the outside edge of a circle, when ideally you want to be closer to the inside edge of an area.

Also, when weighing costs of living, ease of, and variety of types of transportation,
work effecting criteria of time / travel, will trump
The importance of time to get to rock/ gym.
They may be secondary priorities ?

I don't fly often so I don't know about the increased traffic to Hartford Connecticut, Stewart Airport in Newburgh NY? I do know the immediate vicinity around both hold some of the most ' Poka-dotted ' (as to economic striations ) and live-able neighborhoods I've ever seen. Something about living near airports?

Lexington Mass too I just realized Lexington/Concord, on the doorstep of Logan Airport Twenty minutes to " Boston" An Hour during Drive times. .
Michael Schneider
Joined Apr 24, 2014
70 points
Jan 11, 2017
Robert Hall wrote:
What should it matter to my company if I chose to live a normal 1 1/2 hrs from the airport?..if I can get on the flight(s). (AND, BTW, the last 10 miles to/from JFK or LaGuadia can easily take 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour.)


Exactly, it's the employee's responsibility to make the flight. Heck, you can get stuck 5 miles away in a cab en route and miss the flight if there's an accident during rush hour. I doubt proximity to the airport is really a determining factor as long as the OP can reasonably make their flights.

New Paltz is still a good choice for the obvious climbing options at the Gunks, but also for the relatively short drive to Newark and Laguardia.

Unless I missed it, the OP still hasn't specified how frequent the travel requirement will be. Once a month is almost a non-factor versus, say, weekly.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Marc801 wrote:
Well that's certainly the most obnoxious thing I've read on MP in the past year. I don't care if the OP moves or not, but there really hasn't been much discussion of the drawbacks of the entire region, not just specific cities. It can be a rude awakening for someone from the west who is not expecting the things I mentioned. If you're so into the "discover for himself thing", why are you even responding in the thread?

Sorry I offended you, I only meant you are who you are today by living in so many different places. Boulder is a wonderful place to live, but it's like a young emperor trapped in his castle and never leaves it, it becomes a jail. I'm responding because it's good to give a heads up of the Northeast region such as rain clouds and mosquitoes, but a statement such as
Marc801 wrote:
Living in NYC would be the worst purgatory imaginable. You may feel very differently. For me, I would never live east of Denver ever again.
is your stamp saying don't go there, and not any 'hey watch out for this' kind of advice.

doligo wrote:
People move to TX and not WV, because there are jobs in TX, relatively low cost of living and good public school system.

This may be true due to Houston oil, but it's a chicken and egg problem. People settle somewhere, jobs are created, bringing more people. That guy
Nivel Egres is moving somewhere West, bringing 12+ jobs with him.
500 years ago there weren't jobs in any of the States, but where people settle, jobs follow. It's not always due to natural resources such as oil of Texas (although that helps); in fact, one city in Texas has the lowest median income in the United States, while another small Texas town built their industry around patent litigation cases. Procter and Gamble & Kroger started in Cincinnati, and Good year and Firestone started in Akron, Jones Day and Baker Hostetler in Cleveland- not due to the natural resources but due to the people who started it being there.
The low cost of living and no state income tax of Texas I can't argue with, but West Virginia has a low cost of living also. The Texas public school system isn't as good as the Northeast though I can't speak for WV school system.
Therefore I still think it's a "chicken and egg" problem, although Texas may seem more cheerful being warmer and fewer overcast/fog days (although the fog days I remember were amazing).

doligo wrote:
And the weather in the North East is not as half bad as you describe (your description sounds more like TX weather). It's true NE weather is not ideal for climbers (not as consistent as in dryer Western states), but at least there are true spring and fall and the summers are way shorter and more bearable than in TX. As far as mosquitoes, there are mosquitoes even in Indian Creek, UT, FYI. Black flies is a different matter, but there are none in NYC.

The weather description is not from me, it's from Marc:
Marc801 wrote:
Don't know if it's been mentioned, and no, I have not read the entire thread, but for someone coming from the west, the northeast offers.... biting bugs that itch humidity much more frequent crappy weather humidity - all. effing. year. more limited climbing further apart Living in NYC would be the worst purgatory imaginable.

I feel like my memory is still pretty good and have lived in all those regions in different cities for at least for a few years.
Compared to Rockies it might be true, and Texas is just different. I remember the Northeast as having mosquitoes that people killed with zapper lights, gray skies, 4 seasons, snow, roly polys and millipedes, and soft green grass you can lie in. I agree Texas mosquito bites are much bigger, with bluer skies than NE but also heavy "Texas flood" downpours that was bad for driving visibility but was fun to dance in, no snow (but an ice day every few years, and it can get down to 30s), very hot days, lots of air conditioning, awful pokey grass that grows on runners, big garden spiders, giant roaches, and "lovebugs" that physically look like fireflies but without the light, but they fly in connected pairs (the next step after fireflight attraction, I always thought). In Utah/Colorado I don't remember many insect bites, but do remember blinding sunlight, hail, some snow, ordinary houseflies and house spiders, climbing without camping, and in Utah to watch out for tarantulas. Midwest I remember gray skies, little flies buzzing around my ear pissing me off, some mosquitoes.
Though I've visited the West Coast and PNW, I've never lived there so can't comment. Visiting and living are different, so regardless of "better" or "worse" it's actually just "different" I still think it's a good thing to have living experiences in different places. Even if you end up not liking it.
I feel "even if" the Rockies is the most convenient place for climbing, with weather that spoils you, it can be a golden prison. It's like my tour guide in Tibet who wore a "Boston College" shirt and got so pissed thinking that he had never been off the Plateau (it's tough for Tibetens to leave due to regulations by China, although many of them were able to leave plateau on my train) he punched the dashboard of the car we were in.
Ana Tine
Joined Dec 7, 2012
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:



Your map is highly inaccurate from a New Yorker's perspective. I would say it's more like this:




The reason the conversation centered on NY, is because the OP stated that's what he was leaning on, but everyone piled on to dissuade him from it. All the stupid reasons like traffic to the airport and expensive parking, are non-existent if you choose to live in the city.
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
212 points
Jan 11, 2017
Nick Votto wrote:
Agree mostly on the airport point, although Hartford enables you to fly almost anywhere for great prices. I've done 40-50 flights a year out of there for the last 4 years, all over the US, usually only do NYC for international travel.


I actually really like BDL for what it's worth. Super small, but still international. I can drop off a rental, take the shuttle, go through the gate and be in my terminal in 20 minutes total. DIA I spend more time traveling to and through the airport than I spend on some flights!!
Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Feb 15, 2006
105 points
Jan 11, 2017
Scott McMahon wrote:
I actually really like BDL for what it's worth. Super small, but still international. I can drop off a rental, take the shuttle, go through the gate and be in my terminal in 20 minutes total. DIA I spend more time traveling to and through the airport than I spend on some flights!!


as far as the OPs needs BDL is top on my list, then trail running, then the climbing. Trail running might be better than the airport, its close
T Roper
From DC,VA,NM,UT,CT,MA
Joined Mar 31, 2006
730 points
Jan 11, 2017
Robert Hall wrote:
What should it matter to my company if I chose to live a normal 1 1/2 hrs from the airport?..if I can get on the flight(s). (AND, BTW, the last 10 miles to/from JFK or LaGuadia can easily take 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour.)


Kevin Heckeler wrote:
Exactly, it's the employee's responsibility to make the flight. Heck, you can get stuck 5 miles away in a cab en route and miss the flight if there's an accident during rush hour. I doubt proximity to the airport is really a determining factor as long as the OP can reasonably make their flights.

I agree with this, yet from a company perspective, if you do miss your flight, is the next one in 90 minutes or tomorrow? That is why many companies that expect major amounts of travel from their employees say "major" airport. I happen to know someone who did not get a job offer simply because they lived too far from a "major airport".

Kevin Heckeler wrote:
Unless I missed it, the OP still hasn't specified how frequent the travel requirement will be. Once a month is almost a non-factor versus, say, weekly.

Without reviewing the thread, I seem to recall seeing "65% travel" or thereabouts. It's why some replies said that the OP wouldn't really get the benefits of living in NYC with that much travel.
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
Marc801 wrote:
Without reviewing the thread, I seem to recall seeing "65% travel" or thereabouts. It's why some replies said that the OP wouldn't really get the benefits of living in NYC with that much travel.


I guess not doing air travel for a living I don't know how that translates. Does that mean 2+ weeks/month being out of town on one trip, or 6 short trips in 3 weeks? One requires a single trip to the airport, the other 6 trips. It would definitely matter to me if I had to drive 1.5 -2 hours to the airport 6 times in a month.

Again, I'm just making New Paltz my choice for the OP (there's many options)... Newark and Laguardia are major, so if the flight was missed or cancelled he has maximum number of options, regardless if he started from 10 miles away in Manhattan or 2 hours away in New Paltz.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Ana Tine wrote:
I'm responding because it's good to give a heads up of the Northeast region such as rain clouds and mosquitoes, but a statement such as

Marc801 wrote:
Living in NYC would be the worst purgatory imaginable. You may feel very differently. For me, I would never live east of Denver ever again.

is your stamp saying don't go there, and not any 'hey watch out for this' kind of advice.
  • *******************

I thought that statement was pretty evident that it was strictly my opinion. As I mentioned, I grew up within 30 minutes of midtown Manhattan, and went into the city a lot in my teenage and college years. My first concert involved sneaking out of the house when I was 13 to see Santana opening for Jefferson Airplane at Filmore East. I never even once considered living in the city. It's not for everyone. Again, my opinion, not recommendation, just like yours, and everyone else in the thread.

Edit to fix the broken quoting function in MP forums.
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
I guess not doing air travel for a living I don't know how that translates. Does that mean 2+ weeks/month being out of town on one trip, or 6 short trips in 3 weeks? One requires a single trip to the airport, the other 6 trips. It would definitely matter to me if I had to drive 1.5 -2 hours to the airport 6 times in a month. Again, I'm just making New Paltz my choice for the OP (there's many options)... Newark and Laguardia are major, so if the flight was missed or cancelled he has maximum number of options, regardless if he started from 10 miles away in Manhattan or 2 hours away in New Paltz.



I would NOT wanna drive from New Paltz to Newark. Not shitting on anyone's plans, God forbid we have a discussion, but just saying..
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
40 points


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