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Boulder, CO climber moving to East Coast
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Jan 8, 2017
Marc801 wrote:
Me: Born and raised and lived in NJ within a 30min bus ride to mid-town Manhattan for my first 23 years, lived in Stamford CT 3 yrs then Wallingford CT for the next 18 yrs, moved to SLC UT 16 yrs ago and never looked back. Climbed in CT once, thought it sucked, climbed in CT a second time a few years later, thought it still sucked....thus the regular 100 minute drive to the Gunks.

In case anyone cares this puts Marc at 60 years old. You've lived, now let someone else discover for himself the good and the bad of the East. He doesn't have to stay there forever. I'm beginning to feel like OP is Dorthy in "the Wizard of Oz." I love ice cream, but ice cream every day for the rest of my life would be boring.

Btw I spent a summer at Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, CT, and it was beautiful.

Kevin Heckeler wrote:
In layman's terms - almost 200,000 people LEFT New York last year to move to a different State. This isn't a new trend, it's been the trend for a while. People are leaving, and there's no influx of people coming from other States to replace them.

Yes there has been a Southwest trend of migration in the United States. But that has little to do with OP's life. Why follow trends esp since he is in a trend area.
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
: alloveralbany.com/archive/2016... Note where the States of greatest increase are -- NOT the Northeast... ;-)

Weird so many people move to Texas, and no one moves to West Virginia. I lived in Texas for 15 years, visited West Virginia many times and would prefer West Virginia. To me almost any WV city feels more wild (true to their slogan) than the Denver area, every time I hike around Denver or Colorado Springs there are throngs of people and I feel like an ant following all the other ants in a pilgrimage. There is more rain in WV though and at first I was afraid I'd get eaten like in the movies but that didn't happen.

The United States takes in more Migrants than any other country in the world by more than double, over one million immigrants per year. Then a net of 1.35 million people also born each year beyond the number who have passed, for an increase of 2.35 million people in the United States each year -and increasing, because more people mean more births. The ports of entry include New York, and then they discover the humidity, gray skies, and mosquitoes and from there eventually flood southwest as the map Kevin linked to shows.
sherb
Joined Dec 7, 2012
0 points
Jan 9, 2017
"If you like Boulder CO you will love Hoboken NJ'

With all due respect.... Let's not be that unrealistic to this nice young person asking for our advice.

The northeast corridor, in a big city (or nearby in urban sub-jungle), really is "the 7th circle of hell". The only way to justify moving to NYC would be a job in fashion, finance, or something else that is intrinsic to the city and gets you ingrained into the scene and absorbing all the amazingness within. A job that has nothing to do with NYC: why bother? You will be like a tourist. And the other crappy spots, smaller cities like Philly and Boston and even worse Newark, Hartford, etc etc, these places are antiquated, cultureless behind-the-times Holes.
Russ Keane
Joined Feb 8, 2013
70 points
Jan 9, 2017
This debate about NYC is very strange. I'm sure anyone looking to rent an apartment here would be very surprised to learn that everyone is leaving!

Oh wait, they aren't leaving... only the real Americans are leaving while the city is "propped up" by immigrants! (As the city has been for centuries.)

It is easy to get the wrong idea from selective statistics. I'm not sure what the point of this particular side discussion is supposed to be. That the city is in decline? This is obviously false, if it matters to the original poster. NYC is in its healthiest state in decades. I've been living in the city for 25 years and right now it is safer and more vibrant than ever.

That doesn't mean anyone has to like the city or that it is a great place for a climber to live. Unless the big city fills you with excitement it is a bad idea to move to NYC. It is in many many ways an irrational choice to live here. You have to really want to!
SethG
Joined Aug 17, 2009
170 points
Jan 9, 2017
doligo wrote:
Nah. There's a reason there is no "How do you know someone is from Manhattan?" joke...

From or lives in Manhattan? I think if you've made it to the actual top, you won't feel like telling mere peons about it.

On the other hand, how do you know if someone climbs at The Gunks?
reboot
From Westminster, CO
Joined Jul 17, 2006
50 points
Jan 9, 2017
It seems like the OP is leaning toward NYC but I wanted to throw Boston into consideration again. I have lived in both cities and they are vastly different. As a serious climber, I think Boston is a great choice. A few reasons to consider Boston:

  • A huge variety of climbing gyms in Boston and near Boston that each have their own community which will help OP find partners etc.
  • Proximity to a major international airport that can't be beat in any city.
  • Weekend access to climbing in New Hampshire, Adirondacks, Gunks, Vermont, CT, and others.
  • Weekday access to QQ, College Rock, Rose Ledge, Crow Hill etc.
  • Weekday trail running in the Blue Hills or along the esplanade.
  • Weekend trail running in the White Mountains, which is incredible training ground.
  • Much lower rent in Boston/Cambridge vs. NYC. I live downtown and have a car for weekend trips which is completely impractical in NYC.
  • Great place for education, residency, etc. in the medical field.

If preserving an outdoor lifestyle is as important as experiencing a new city, then I think Boston is a clear choice.
Alissa Doherty
From Boston, MA
Joined Oct 17, 2012
75 points
Jan 9, 2017
Alissa Doherty wrote:
It seems like the OP is leaning toward NYC but I wanted to throw Boston into consideration again. I have lived in both cities and they are vastly different. As a serious climber, I think Boston is a great choice. A few reasons to consider Boston: * A huge variety of climbing gyms in Boston and near Boston that each have their own community which will help OP find partners etc. * Proximity to a major international airport that can't be beat in any city. * Weekend access to climbing in New Hampshire, Adirondacks, Gunks, Vermont, CT, and others. * Weekday access to QQ, College Rock, Rose Ledge, Crow Hill etc. * Weekday trail running in the Blue Hills or along the esplanade. * Weekend trail running in the White Mountains, which is incredible training ground. * Much lower rent in Boston/Cambridge vs. NYC. I live downtown and have a car for weekend trips which is completely impractical in NYC. * Great place for education, residency, etc. in the medical field. If preserving an outdoor lifestyle is as important as experiencing a new city, then I think Boston is a clear choice.


I would agree with this suggestion 100% though the weather is still going to be an issue along with traffic.
Peter Beal
From Boulder Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,670 points
Jan 9, 2017
Ana Tine wrote:
In case anyone cares this puts Marc at 60 years old. You've lived, now let someone else discover for himself the good and the bad of the East.

Well that's certainly the most obnoxious thing I've read on MP in the past year.

I don't care if the OP moves or not, but there really hasn't been much discussion of the drawbacks of the entire region, not just specific cities. It can be a rude awakening for someone from the west who is not expecting the things I mentioned.

If you're so into the "discover for himself thing", why are you even responding in the thread?
Marc801
From Sandy, Utah
Joined Feb 25, 2014
0 points
Administrator
Jan 9, 2017
I lived in North-Central NJ 13 yrs, CT 25 yrs and retired to NH 5 yrs ago. Here's some Beta not mentioned:
1) Sounds like a pretty good job, probably pays pretty good to. CT has a up-to-6.85% Income Tax plus sales Tax, Ditto for NJ and NY. NH has no income tax and no sales tax !

2) When we moved to NH my wife was still "commuting" to SFC and we were surprised at how FEW non-stops fly out of Boston to the West Coast (at least to SFC). Boston, in the bigger scheme of things, is not really that large a population center...about the same size as Charlotte, NC. Southeastern NH (Durham / Rochester area) is about 1 1/2- 2 hrs from Boston's Logan, 1 1/2 from Portland (ME) airport, and about 1 to 1 1/2 from Manchester's airport, and 1 1/2- 2hrs from North Conway and other WMNF climbing areas. If we didn't just love it where we were, this is where we would be.

We live in North Conway, and while this is a bit out-of-the-way from "airline commuting" Portland (ME) airport is 80miles and 1hr 20-30minutes and a breeze to get too (great secondary roads) while Logan is 3 hrs and Manchester is 2 1/2 hrs. West coast is a "one change" in either Atlanta, Detroit (Delta), Baltimore (Southwest) or Chicago (United).

If possible, get your company to agree to pay for limo/shuttle service to and from the airport (If they are reluctant, maybe compromise and get 'em to OK $'s for flights that take off before 7am or arrive after 10pm.) because that REALLY makes a difference when you arrive "time- warped" from the West Coast, or have to get up early for a flight and still "function" that afternoon at your destination.
Robert Hall
Joined Aug 27, 2013
10,314 points
Jan 9, 2017
As someone who has spent about equal amounts of time living in third world countries and new york city, I would rather live in a third world country than new york city. Don't do that to yourself.

I also currently live in Connecticut and think you'd be making a huge mistake to live her if New Paltz is on the table.

New Paltz is heaven on earth.
christopher adams
Joined Apr 5, 2006
0 points
Jan 9, 2017
climbing friend,

how would you be surviving outside of the boulder without your white person dreadlock and your marijuanas?
Aleks Zebastian
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2014
0 points
Jan 9, 2017
Aleks Zebastian wrote:
climbing friend, how would you be surviving outside of the boulder without your white person dreadlock and your marijuanas?


That's a stupid question.

Of course they get their head shaved and sprinkle some coke on the bowl.

Or just say fuck-it and go trendy with some H.

He brings up a good point though - Boston will have legal weed soon.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 9, 2017
Ana Tine wrote:
In case anyone cares this puts Marc at 60 years old. You've lived, now let someone else discover for himself the good and the bad of the East. He doesn't have to stay there forever. I'm beginning to feel like OP is Dorthy in "the Wizard of Oz." I love ice cream, but ice cream every day for the rest of my life would be boring. Btw I spent a summer at Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, CT, and it was beautiful. Yes there has been a Southwest trend of migration in the United States. But that has little to do with OP's life. Why follow trends esp since he is in a trend area. Weird so many people move to Texas, and no one moves to West Virginia. I lived in Texas for 15 years, visited West Virginia many times and would prefer West Virginia. To me almost any WV city feels more wild (true to their slogan) than the Denver area, every time I hike around Denver or Colorado Springs there are throngs of people and I feel like an ant following all the other ants in a pilgrimage. There is more rain in WV though and at first I was afraid I'd get eaten like in the movies but that didn't happen. The United States takes in more Migrants than any other country in the world by more than double, over one million immigrants per year. Then a net of 1.35 million people also born each year beyond the number who have passed, for an increase of 2.35 million people in the United States each year -and increasing, because more people mean more births. The ports of entry include New York, and then they discover the humidity, gray skies, and mosquitoes and from there eventually flood southwest as the map Kevin linked to shows.


People move to TX and not WV, because there are jobs in TX, relatively low cost of living and good public school system. There has always been migration from NY to warmer states, mostly retirees fleeing to warmer climates. As the real estate in FL went up people started looking more west (particularly Phoenix/Scottsdale area). The largest population influx into SW states comes from California, not NY (because of cost of living). And the weather in the North East is not as half bad as you describe (your description sounds more like TX weather). It's true NE weather is not ideal for climbers (not as consistent as in dryer Western states), but at least there are true spring and fall and the summers are way shorter and more bearable than in TX. As far as mosquitoes, there are mosquitoes even in Indian Creek, UT, FYI. Black flies is a different matter, but there are none in NYC.

All the links in Kevin's post point to the population decline of New York S-T-A-T-E (which for people from not around there might as well be Ohio in terms of demographics and economics), not the city.
doligo
Joined Sep 26, 2008
212 points
Jan 9, 2017
climbing friend,

the "good public school system" in the texas they are governed by the greasy flaccid members who vote to not allow textbooks or teachers to be speaking of evolution?

how you say "yee-haw!!!"

"yippie cay yay you are in love with the jesus!!!"
Aleks Zebastian
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jul 3, 2014
0 points
Jan 9, 2017
Robert Hall wrote:
I lived in North-Central NJ 13 yrs, CT 25 yrs and retired to NH 5 yrs ago. Here's some Beta not mentioned: 1) Sounds like a pretty good job, probably pays pretty good to. CT has a up-to-6.85% Income Tax plus sales Tax, Ditto for NJ and NY. NH has no income tax and no sales tax ! 2) When we moved to NH my wife was still "commuting" to SFC and we were surprised at how FEW non-stops fly out of Boston to the West Coast (at least to SFC). Boston, in the bigger scheme of things, is not really that large a population center...about the same size as Charlotte, NC. Southeastern NH (Durham / Rochester area) is about 1 1/2- 2 hrs from Boston's Logan, 1 1/2 from Portland (ME) airport, and about 1 to 1 1/2 from Manchester's airport, and 1 1/2- 2hrs from North Conway and other WMNF climbing areas. If we didn't just love it where we were, this is where we would be. We live in North Conway, and while this is a bit out-of-the-way from "airline commuting" Portland (ME) airport is 80miles and 1hr 20-30minutes and a breeze to get too (great secondary roads) while Logan is 3 hrs and Manchester is 2 1/2 hrs. West coast is a "one change" in either Atlanta, Detroit (Delta), Baltimore (Southwest) or Chicago (United). If possible, get your company to agree to pay for limo/shuttle service to and from the airport (If they are reluctant, maybe compromise and get 'em to OK $'s for flights that take off before 7am or arrive after 10pm.) because that REALLY makes a difference when you arrive "time- warped" from the West Coast, or have to get up early for a flight and still "function" that afternoon at your destination.


This is really good advice, and really relevant.
lukeweiss
From Pike, NH
Joined Mar 12, 2014
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
doligo wrote:
All the links in Kevin's post point to the population decline of New York S-T-A-T-E (which for people from not around there might as well be Ohio in terms of demographics and economics), not the city.


Dude's got an axe to grind. Concrete jungle got him shook worse than a Gunks climber on a sandstone splitter. Looking to justify his fear and paranoia by slandering the urban folk. Dog whistlin'. Disgraceful.
City Dweller
From New York, NY
Joined Oct 7, 2015
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
There's always the Providence RI area....pretty good bouldering, a decent airport and really good food ! john strand
From southern colo
Joined May 22, 2008
1,575 points
Jan 11, 2017
I grew up in Seattle, have family in Montana and used to live in Bozeman, and live in Boston now--for 2 more years, until I finish medical school. I am literally counting down the days until I leave.

DO NOT move out here. You will regret it. The resort skiing is garbage, basically tilted hockey rinks. Backcountry skiing consists mostly of attempting to navigate impassable birch groves. The climbing is excellent, but compared to Boulder, it's a LOOOOOOONG drive from any of these places and the weather is total crap. That's coming from someone who lived in Seattle and Bozeman, which are not known for being sunny and warm. It's hot, humid, and rainy in the spring and summer. The winter is basically unclimbable--I have a harder time climbing rock out here in winter than either Seattle or Bozeman.

The traffic in Boston is barely better than in Seattle. It's impossible to bike anywhere here without fearing for your life. People maladaptively cope with pent-up rage by driving homicidally. They salt the roads so much that anything you own made of metal will basically disintegrate in 5 years. People are RUDE compared to the PNW/MT/Colorado, even at the crags. Places are crowded--there are something like 50 million people in the DC-Boston corridor, and there's not nearly as much public land to handle the crowds. To cap it off, it's EXPENSIVE af to live out here.

If you consider yourself an outdoorsman first, DO NOT MOVE TO A BIG CITY IN THE NORTHEAST. I can't emphasize that enough. You will be unhappy and regret it. Places like North Conway, New Paltz, Burlington, Portland, etc would probably be a mild disappointment rather than soul-crushing but those sound like they are impractical for you with your travel requirements.
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
Meanwhile everyone in The South is silent because they're outside climbing. WTylerOsborne
From Charlotte, NC
Joined Apr 25, 2016
0 points
Jan 11, 2017
WTylerOsborne wrote:
Meanwhile everyone in The South is silent because they're outside climbing.


I'd choose the South in a heartbeat over the Northeast but he said he needs to be between Boston and Baltimore
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
City Dweller wrote:
Dude's got an axe to grind. Concrete jungle got him shook worse than a Gunks climber on a sandstone splitter. Looking to justify his fear and paranoia by slandering the urban folk. Dog whistlin'. Disgraceful.


We all missed you and your high brow name calling.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:
I grew up in Seattle, have family in Montana and used to live in Bozeman, and live in Boston now--for 2 more years, until I finish medical school. I am literally counting down the days until I leave. DO NOT move out here. You will regret it. The resort skiing is garbage, basically tilted hockey rinks. Backcountry skiing consists mostly of attempting to navigate impassable birch groves. The climbing is excellent, but compared to Boulder, it's a LOOOOOOONG drive from any of these places and the weather is total crap. That's coming from someone who lived in Seattle and Bozeman, which are not known for being sunny and warm. It's hot, humid, and rainy in the spring and summer. The winter is basically unclimbable--I have a harder time climbing rock out here in winter than either Seattle or Bozeman. The traffic in Boston is barely better than in Seattle. It's impossible to bike anywhere here without fearing for your life. People maladaptively cope with pent-up rage by driving homicidally. They salt the roads so much that anything you own made of metal will basically disintegrate in 5 years. People are RUDE compared to the PNW/MT/Colorado, even at the crags. Places are crowded--there are something like 50 million people in the DC-Boston corridor, and there's not nearly as much public land to handle the crowds. To cap it off, it's EXPENSIVE af to live out here. If you consider yourself an outdoorsman first, DO NOT MOVE TO A BIG CITY IN THE NORTHEAST. I can't emphasize that enough. You will be unhappy and regret it. Places like North Conway, New Paltz, Burlington, Portland, etc would probably be a mild disappointment rather than soul-crushing but those sound like they are impractical for you with your travel requirements.


You must have an "ax to grind". lol
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Ralph Swansen wrote:
Hartford is a fair place and will feel more "like" Boulder than NYC.


haha i spent 22 years in the immediate Hartford area and have lived in Boulder for 10 and have never heard nor made this comparison.

Hartford is a shit hole. Sure it's got it's good and bad including one of the best art museums you can find, but it's still a hole. Don't get me wrong you can find things about it that you'll love, but there is no comparison other than it's not a huge city. It compare it more to Denver if Denver decided to be especially shitty. Don't ever leave your gear in your car for sure.

Oh if you want to get stoked on NE climbing though read this. Favorite book and will give you tons of history

amazon.com/Yankee-Rock-Ice-Cli...

Go Huskies
Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Feb 15, 2006
105 points
Jan 11, 2017
Jimmy Sledd wrote:
I'd choose the South in a heartbeat over the Northeast but he said he needs to be between Boston and Baltimore


Depends on a lot of things. There's even less rock in the deep south than in the Northeast, but less climbers as a percentage of the whole. The warmth and humidity though, it gets really bad. I lived a year in Florida, about half the year was the NE summer every day. I know the Carolinas and Tennessee get some relief, but they're still very warm during the May-Sept time frame.

The only benefit with the South would be the temps Dec thru early March.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,361 points
Jan 11, 2017
Kevin Heckeler wrote:
You must have an "ax to grind". lol


Certainly do. Miss the west terribly and don't want another lifelong Westerner to make the same mistake.
Jimmy Sledd
From Bozeman, Montana
Joined Mar 7, 2013
5 points
Jan 11, 2017
Scott McMahon is correct.

I'm trying to figure out how this became so NYC oriented. Sure, New York is arguably one of the greatest cities in the world, and if your priority is millions of beautiful women, amazing bars and one of the best restaurant scenes on the planet, the best live music scene hands down, it would be a great choice.
BUT, it's not all that close to climbing, is incredibly expensive, and is challenging to even have a car.

I don't love Boston nearly as much as NYC but I believe it's better in your case.
My vote would be somewhere like Northampton, MA or Nashua, NH




Scott McMahon wrote:
haha i spent 22 years in the immediate Hartford area and have lived in Boulder for 10 and have never heard nor made this comparison. Hartford is a shit hole. Sure it's got it's good and bad including one of the best art museums you can find, but it's still a hole. Don't get me wrong you can find things about it that you'll love, but there is no comparison other than it's not a huge city. It compare it more to Denver if Denver decided to be especially shitty. Don't ever leave your gear in your car for sure. Oh if you want to get stoked on NE climbing though read this. Favorite book and will give you tons of history amazon.com/Yankee-Rock-Ice-Cli... Go Huskies
Nick Votto
Joined Jul 27, 2008
80 points


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